00:01:31 <zedmatrix> thats y it is auto login :)
00:03:33 <zedmatrix> but alot of those are just links to the systemctl (systemd) or halt (sys-v)
00:04:06 <nsITobin> himem.sys
00:04:09 <nsITobin> ... sorry
00:04:09 <Sploosh> don't worry, next time...
00:04:56 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: so how useful is bash without anything else on the system? or rather dash
00:07:09 <nsITobin> read the man page
00:07:13 <nsITobin> online
00:07:41 <nsITobin> seems for dash at least .. not much just enough to run stuff and the scripting language
00:07:45 <zedmatrix> well dash is smaller in the initrd
00:07:56 <zedmatrix> its posix compat
00:08:02 <nsITobin> well i was just thinking more abstractly
00:08:26 <nsITobin> i can pretty much run whatever i want in any manner i want .. it just depends on coming up with it
00:10:00 <zedmatrix> i think gentoo uses the 6.6 series for there live cd, hence why i used it, its also the most compatible kernels
00:10:49 <nsITobin> conditioned all my life by microsoft and to a lesser extent apple to see the entire system as an entire system kernel programs drivers etc .. it all requires it all or a good chunk of it.. but linux.. linux at least for the time being does what it is told. If I tell it to run wineserver as PID1 and only include the files directly needed for xorg and wine .. i can.. this is still a year later amazing but won't completely crystalize until I attempt it..
00:10:52 <zedmatrix> when they started striping the good stuff out from 5 like pg up/dn on the terminal
00:11:47 <nsITobin> terminal or console?
00:12:02 <nsITobin> console/virtual console
00:12:19 <nsITobin> which i count different than either a terminal window or a real ass terminal
00:15:47 <zedmatrix> either the terminal just pages thru commands, and not scroll the buffer
00:16:10 <zedmatrix> now just for the same functionality u need to install screen
00:18:06 <nsITobin> $ cat .screenrc 
00:18:06 <nsITobin> hardstatus off
00:18:06 <nsITobin> caption always " %{-b ..}%-w%{+b ..}%{bd}[ %{kd} %n%f*%t %{bd}]%{-}%+w %=%{bd}[ %{kd}%Y-%m-%d %c:%s %{bd}] "
00:18:06 <nsITobin> termcapinfo xterm* ti@:te@
00:18:10 <nsITobin> ;)
00:19:51 <nsITobin> i like it has a clock and date
00:20:00 <nsITobin> means i don't need a widget or a taskbar
00:21:59 <nsITobin> i have more nonsense
00:22:00 <nsITobin> alias untar="tar -vxf"; alias dir='LC_COLLATE=C ls -halF --group-directories-first'; alias cls="clear"; alias edit='nano'; alias explorer='nemo';
00:22:27 <zedmatrix> also the pg  up/dn was handy in the console
00:23:27 <zedmatrix> haha alias edit='nano << dos junkie :)
00:23:39 <nsITobin> and cls
00:23:41 <nsITobin> and dir
00:24:44 <nsITobin> i simply refuse to use ls -abcdefg --ache --eye --jay --el-em-in-oh-p or type out C L E A R
00:24:45 <nsITobin> :P
00:26:56 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: more bs https://dpaste.org/3DKzB/raw
00:27:00 <zedmatrix> what funny i am getting used to alias ll='ls -l' that when its not in the chroot its like damn !
00:27:17 <nsITobin> i need directories first
00:27:21 <nsITobin> too trained to dos
00:27:36 <nsITobin> also like my mklink command
00:27:50 <nsITobin> tho i never use it anymore
00:27:56 <nsITobin> i did learn ln more or less
00:28:03 <zedmatrix> yea i have mixed up so many ln cmds :)
00:28:17 <nsITobin> but i used to use it because I was big into symlinks on windows
00:28:33 <nsITobin> well the microsoft order makes more sense
00:28:38 <nsITobin> make link here to there
00:28:40 <zedmatrix> i use it to install discord on lfs
00:28:55 <nsITobin> rather than link there to here
00:29:13 <zedmatrix> i just literally untar to a local user path, and link to the main system path
00:30:02 <nsITobin> i just wanna be root all the time
00:30:47 <nsITobin> would literally be easier to patch out uid0 checks than deal with the hassle of being not-root
00:31:53 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: I may try disabling CONFIG_MULTIUSER for my self
00:33:26 <zedmatrix> i've gotten so used to being non-root
00:34:03 <zedmatrix> i have to little system update scripts for my gentoo one to sync, and one to update
00:34:13 <zedmatrix> s/to /two
00:34:56 <zedmatrix> and sudo is easy to use, and you can easily patch in su -c
00:36:37 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: to me my computer has always been a kind of assistive device just not in the way most need but it does allow me to accomplish things i otherwise wouldn't be able to .. it provides the means to create a voice to be heard .. tho that has been sketchy in my personal implimentation.. and it just expands me out of my own head.. it extends me .. makes me more capable than I otherwise would be doing some analog job with lifting or fine motor skills
00:37:36 <nsITobin> this constantly proving who i am to the system designed to assist and enhance me is almost like trying to prove who i am to my self.. because I also envision my self as PART of that system not just at the end using it.. so i end up conflicting with my self.
00:38:14 <nsITobin> the relatable expression of THAT is say my administration of a shared system skills telling me one thing and my personal skills telling me something else
00:39:52 <nsITobin> the whole.. yeah it is good general advice i agree.. but ima doin it anyway
00:39:57 <zedmatrix> that is what youtube is for :)
00:40:24 <nsITobin> LOL
00:42:19 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: I am the type of.. Trust me I have been doing this for a long time.. do the safe thing.. now if you'll excuse me I am gonna tell security to kiss my ass cause it is in my way
00:42:29 <nsITobin> and people haven't always responded well lol
00:44:49 <nsITobin> If you think you can run without a lot of security messures or them there best practices.. Prove it.. I'd be interested in how you manage the risk.. but I am so gonna laugh if it goes wrong because everyone DOES know the best practices
00:45:09 <nsITobin> i think you learned more that way
00:45:12 <nsITobin> and it was more fun
00:45:43 <nsITobin> must have been a change from managing risk to avoiding risk
00:45:51 <nsITobin> managing risk has better rewards
00:45:56 <nsITobin> and learning experiences
00:47:18 <zedmatrix> i know like some guys in the gentoo-chat chan don't like the use of c++ system cmd :)
00:47:41 <zedmatrix> they r like oh you can enject exec code 
00:47:59 <nsITobin> well c++ is now a gateway drug into Rust
00:48:06 <nsITobin> just say no zedmatrix 
00:48:11 <nsITobin> don't do rust
00:48:18 <zedmatrix> c++ is older thean rust
00:48:39 <nsITobin> c projects moving to living standard C++ as a step to rust
00:48:41 <nsITobin> it is happening
00:48:41 <zedmatrix> tho i do like c++ over c 
00:48:44 <nsITobin> more and more
00:48:48 <nsITobin> i like php
00:49:16 <nsITobin> older php
00:49:35 <nsITobin> current php is just another framework runner now
00:49:57 <nsITobin> which is why I am forking 7.4 as Phobia cause everyone is scared of PHP's phpisms
00:50:03 <nsITobin> but I like em
00:50:06 <nsITobin> they have charm
00:50:47 <nsITobin> and I want a non-python non-perl advanced language i can trivially write in for my system.. bash is great up to a point
00:51:21 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: rpm is being rewritten in C++ to be converted to Rust
00:51:30 <nsITobin> so rpm-c is mine..
00:51:47 <nsITobin> linux kernel is in C
00:51:50 <nsITobin> php is in C
00:51:59 <nsITobin> C is the world.
00:52:05 <zedmatrix> yea alot r , ffmpeg too 
00:52:21 <zedmatrix> well it pretty much started with C
00:52:40 <nsITobin> and if they go cpp and/or rust i will fork it.. it may die shortly after but I will make the first effort if no one else cares.. that is merely.. a shame
00:53:12 <zedmatrix> tho did you see i labeled the iso, its so that the init script can find it
00:54:23 <nsITobin> yay
00:54:43 <nsITobin> tho i still think PARTLABEL is available without udev
00:55:09 <nsITobin> will have to test it
00:55:12 <zedmatrix> udev is like i said to make it easier to mount the nodes
00:56:13 <zedmatrix> but this has been helpful.... https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/view/systemd/postlfs/initramfs.html
00:57:20 <zedmatrix> the init.in is what is actually executed at boot time
00:57:28 <nsITobin> i wonder if anyone else will join in cause it has been kinda largely the zedmatrix and nsITobin show for days on end lol
00:57:58 <zedmatrix> i saw last week Moody did his usual one liner :)
00:58:29 <nsITobin> never understood irc channels that idle for days on end.. like almost all of them do
00:58:38 <zedmatrix> but most of the time LFS is pretty quiet, even the -support
00:59:00 <nsITobin> book is that well written i guess
01:00:55 <zedmatrix> well even my divergent its pretty flawless
01:01:24 <nsITobin> hopefully i will have more time tomorrow to get more accomplished
01:01:38 <nsITobin> i need to get back to spec files
01:02:09 <nsITobin> also need to take care of pre-ch8 as well if i don't just try zbuild
01:02:16 <zedmatrix> but i think i need to make 3 versions of the lfs live, and compare how each kernel works, like a 6.6, maybe a 6.10, 6.12
01:02:53 <zedmatrix> utoh do i have a new dev to help maintain it :)
01:03:34 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: as a product to be shipped.. I'd stick to more an LTS profile.. only majorly updating it when it becomes incapable of being minorly updated or producing newer lfs systems..
01:04:16 <zedmatrix> i just want to see how the config moves with each iso 
01:05:34 <nsITobin> i kinda like the name rpm-c
01:05:40 <nsITobin> could stand for rpm classic
01:05:45 <nsITobin> or rpm compact
01:07:44 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: i may have asked you this before .. but do you know if nested chrooting works or does it get fucked
01:07:58 <nsITobin> screwed.. i should limit cursing in here
01:07:59 <nsITobin> sorry
01:07:59 <zedmatrix> well yea mine still needs a way of dealing with deps (spec) stuff
01:07:59 <Sploosh> don't worry, next time...
01:08:21 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: librepo
01:08:29 <zedmatrix> i think i have tryed a chroot > chroot once
01:08:46 <nsITobin> wait no
01:08:48 <nsITobin> not that lib
01:09:20 <zedmatrix> wow that linux 6.6.93 booted the asus, and loaded the nouveau and i915 drivers
01:10:09 <zedmatrix> didn't haveto use any commandline, and i just went with (safe) not ramdisk
01:11:14 <zedmatrix> if i use a stripped down version, it could get down in size to make it a fully portable LFS installer
01:11:30 <nsITobin> https://github.com/openSUSE/libsolv
01:11:34 <nsITobin> that's the one
01:16:27 <zedmatrix> hmm maybe
01:17:07 <nsITobin> artifical idiot chatbots know about it it could give you some sample starter code you can unscrew and make work
01:21:08 <zedmatrix> yea looks like it creates a pool of packages, means i would haveto add depends to my zbc files
01:21:38 <nsITobin> well that is what you asked for ;)
01:22:00 <nsITobin> i get it for free which means I have to unget it to get started lol
01:22:02 <zedmatrix> i guess for the chapter 8 packages, all the depends is just the one before 
01:22:32 <zedmatrix> or use the arch depends
01:22:52 <nsITobin> just do what lfs says
01:23:00 <nsITobin> they list depends and recommends
01:23:31 <zedmatrix> not in LFS, just in BLFS
01:24:09 <zedmatrix> you need to build the pool of packages, thats y the jhalfs starts in chapter 8
01:24:39 <zedmatrix> other than that the package manager doesn't know where to start
01:24:51 <nsITobin> you're right
01:24:52 <nsITobin> hmm
01:25:18 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: welcome to the bootstrap problem in a dependancy based package manager
01:25:22 <nsITobin> i been here for weeks
01:25:25 <nsITobin> ;)
01:25:30 <zedmatrix> in reality the linux package manager just helps later on  in resolving 
01:27:04 <zedmatrix> this is what i used for chapter 5/6 https://bpa.st/GHQQ
01:27:20 <nsITobin> i been doing it manually then took an image
01:27:26 <nsITobin> and working from that
01:27:55 <nsITobin> should just script it but run the build on lfs not here on el8-ish
01:28:11 <zedmatrix> i think the next is to add a packager... .zst or tar.xz of the destdir
01:28:46 <nsITobin> i like xz but xz has fallen since the crap happened..
01:30:15 <nsITobin> be back
01:35:09 <nsITobin> booted on metal
01:35:11 <nsITobin> zedmatrix
01:35:18 <nsITobin> nomodeset
01:38:24 <zedmatrix> which the 6.6 ?
01:38:54 <nsITobin> yes
01:39:32 <zedmatrix> hmm maybe the nouveau is interferring?
01:39:49 <zedmatrix> or the lack of the amdgpu firmware?
01:41:18 <zedmatrix> cause my lsmod is VERY populated
01:48:14 <zedmatrix> i think the complaint about init and mnt... is that /mnt/cdrom is still there and i don't move it
02:17:24 <zedmatrix> cool inspecting the mnts now, cdrom, lower, overlay
02:20:04 <zedmatrix> nsITobin: slight change here https://gitlab.com/zed-linuxfromscratch/live-iso
02:20:58 <nsITobin>  aren't you supposed to attach files to a tagged release?
02:21:16 <nsITobin> that is how it works on github anyway
02:21:50 <zedmatrix> those files i packaged from the vm i used to build in 
02:22:01 <nsITobin> ah
02:22:19 <zedmatrix> the grub root is just missing a squashfs 
02:22:43 <nsITobin> ah
02:23:08 <zedmatrix> and the way the init script works you can name the *.squashfs
02:24:05 <zedmatrix> the init also searches for the label ... i use> grub-mkrescue -o lfslive-6.6.39.iso -volid "LFSLIVE_2025" GRUB-6.6-ROOT
02:33:06 <zedmatrix> nsITobin: i think its a good first live lfs iso ... https://ln5.sync.com/4.0/dl/40366fdf0#etfx3id6-24mb3p4z-qkvujgaa-j8ze9mhk
02:34:19 <zedmatrix> tomorrow gonna use it to build and smaller one
02:34:26 <nsITobin> it is very helpful and good work in understanding it
02:34:28 <zedmatrix> maybe tweak the config a bit
02:36:36 <zedmatrix> i wonder when they stopped maintaining the livecd, doesn't really say, just says you can't build LFS 7.0+
02:38:18 <zedmatrix> also the old livecd says cant detect vmware drives
02:38:53 <nsITobin> kernel has gotten more advanced in that regard
02:47:07 <zedmatrix> just setup a new qemu folder and start script using the new iso
02:52:00 <zedmatrix> nsITobin: ok just also added the zbc files to the live-iso
03:15:56 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: i am falling asleep at my keyboard
03:15:58 <nsITobin> good night
03:16:25 <dantob> Hi, anyone moved a completed lfs into a docker/podman container? is there much involved in this? I'm currently using chroot, which has some complications like not allowing me to run systemd/services on the system
03:18:15 <zedmatrix> dantob: have you thought about using vmware or qemu? 
03:39:35 <zedmatrix> dantob: Running systemd in containers is possible but requires special setup (--privileged, --tmpfs /run, --tmpfs /tmp, -v /sys/fs/cgroup:/sys/fs/cgroup:ro)
04:27:17 <dantob> systemd-nspawn seems tomostly do what I want, seemslike a large improvemnet overchroot
05:35:27 <mcbeeffx> zedmatrix: think bootc containers do this now? IIRC 
05:40:41 <mcbeeffx> ah you said systemd IN a container, for some reaason I read that as using systemd to manage a container
05:50:00 <zedmatrix> mcbeeffx: i was just asking claude.ai , cause i haven't used containers
13:43:49 <zedmatrix> nsITobin: cool update my zbuild to remove the tmp and archive the build 
13:44:09 <nsITobin> nice
13:46:04 <zedmatrix> hmm i just notice i should be using zbuild.zzprintln() in my manager class
14:27:09 <zedmatrix> nsITobin: just writing a bit of a 0-setup filesystem helper... https://bpa.st/HOZQ
15:03:23 <nsITobin> just call it zlfs lol
15:06:06 <nsITobin> is this bash or zscript?
15:06:15 <nsITobin> oh bash
15:07:30 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: has it occured to you that theoretically a machine with 32gbs of ram could boot build and compile LFS including the target filesystem entirely within ram
15:07:46 <nsITobin> it might be a bit tight towards the end
15:08:04 <nsITobin> but i theorize the entire base system can be done entirely in ram from its self
15:08:59 <nsITobin> so why am i not already just creating a ramdrive to build lfs lol
15:44:34 <zedmatrix> just bash
15:45:27 <zedmatrix> that little script was helpful having the drive parameter auto populate helped with copy and paste
15:47:48 <zedmatrix> nsITobin: i bet you could build it into 16g and ram, with the iso and a swap/build partition
16:41:20 <zedmatrix> oops haveto look why the remove failed
17:29:11 <zedmatrix> nice the package remove dir works
17:36:08 <zedmatrix> nsITobin: i am using the lifslive 6.6.93 iso to reproduce a new squashfs 
18:19:12 <zedmatrix> damn now i need a name for my distro :)
20:45:40 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: ZLFS Zedmatrix Linux Fundamental System
20:48:58 <nsITobin> or if you wanna be abstract.. Icebird Linux
20:49:32 <nsITobin> .. I'm a non-mainstream mozilla developer what did you expect? lol
20:50:01 <nsITobin> or why not Sky Linux
20:51:15 <nsITobin> oops sky linux is taken
20:56:32 <zedmatrix> ugggh i hate these mozilla certs crap
20:57:04 <zedmatrix> whoever wants https should die!
21:24:06 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: just call it DirtLinux
21:24:21 <nsITobin> so it can be underestimated
21:24:43 <nsITobin> and it would be funny to say.. yeah i use dirt linux.. it is quite clean
21:25:12 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: mozilla did it
21:25:16 <nsITobin> blame them not me
21:25:37 <nsITobin> Dirt Linux.. it will keep you grounded.
21:25:40 <nsITobin> :P
21:42:45 <zedmatrix> i think this is all i need wget https://curl.se/ca/cacert.pem -O $LFS/etc/ssl/certs/ca-bundle.crt
21:43:24 <zedmatrix> plus i just patched my zbuild again in the libcurl module
21:48:15 <zedmatrix> nsITobin: if you build your rpm with static libraries, you might get away with just needing glibc
21:49:41 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: fact is I don't know how to do that yet
21:49:52 <nsITobin> why can't i also include glibc in the binary as well
21:53:26 <zedmatrix> you could if you use musl
21:54:30 <zedmatrix> but the depends for rpm, you will haveto rebuild then with (--enable-static --enable-shared)
22:02:57 <ax562> So y'all have created a bootable gui recovery .iso that can be flashed to a usb drive that works?
22:03:14 <ax562> of lfs of course
22:07:58 <zedmatrix> ax562:  yep
22:08:23 <ax562> where can one find this .iso to flash and try?
22:08:36 <zedmatrix> you can try it https://ln5.sync.com/4.0/dl/40366fdf0#etfx3id6-24mb3p4z-qkvujgaa-j8ze9mhk
22:08:48 <zedmatrix> works in qemu
22:09:23 <zedmatrix> let me know what you think 
22:10:43 <ax562> is it possible to flash it to usb stick to boot from it?
22:18:21 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: it is still console only or did you go ahead and x11 us
22:18:25 <nsITobin> behind my back!
22:19:29 <nsITobin> ax562: yeah the iso he has been producing does now flash to the usb using the dd command or if you are cursed with the fedora ecosystem then fedora media writer does too
22:19:55 <ax562> wait, fedora doesn't allow or package dd?!?
22:20:04 <nsITobin> it has been incredible and speedy work .. a bit annoyed i haven't moved as fast
22:20:41 <ax562> I will try as soon as possible.  Have been loosely following y'alls thread.  Seems really interesting.
22:20:46 <nsITobin> ax562: regular iso to usb dd command or fedora media writer works to get the iso on usb.. i am just a touch bitter ;)
22:21:05 <nsITobin> regarding the redhat world
22:21:29 <ax562> oh ok, i was like no dd?!?
22:21:51 <nsITobin> well who knows.. once they are more mac/windows like why would you need a command line.. that's not modern!
22:22:13 <nsITobin> i'll tone it down slightly :)
22:22:43 <nsITobin> but seriously zedmatrix has done remarkable work in reviving A if not a future THE lfs bootable and buildable livecd
22:23:39 <nsITobin> if i had those currency certificates everyone is on about I would send some to zedmatrix just because it is impressive he came up with it so quickly and super minimally
22:24:08 <nsITobin> you can poke it and get what it is doing.. try that with a fedora or suse livecd
23:21:06 <ax562> Is this the md5sum of "cc86cc84ec412c0d56cf04f3856e8f2d  lfslive-6.6.39.tar.xz" ?  
23:22:40 <ax562> duh, nm, it was in the tar ball.
23:23:09 <ax562> Does the numbering 6.6.39 mean that this is using lfs 6.6?
23:36:29 <nsITobin> no kernel
23:36:36 <nsITobin> lfs 6 is ancient
23:37:48 <ax562> that's what it thought :p
23:38:06 <ax562> going to give it a try later :)
23:42:37 <nsITobin> ax562: later never comes.. do it naow!!!!!
23:47:23 <ax562> bro, I got so much on my plate at all times.  Literally cleaning a numark ttx plate atm.