00:01:19 <zedmatrix> hmm i guess i should put the md5 on sync as well
00:08:45 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: sup
00:19:06 <zedmatrix> just a slight bump https://gitlab.com/zed-linuxfromscratch/live-iso
00:20:04 <zedmatrix> i shouldof put the .crt file 
00:28:53 <zedmatrix> nsITobin: also finished upto end of 7 
14:04:28 <nsITobin> Zed From Scratch?
14:04:36 <nsITobin> z3dm4tr1x: 
14:05:00 <nsITobin> ZScratch
14:05:12 <nsITobin> that will be it
14:05:14 <nsITobin> :P
14:05:34 <nsITobin> why break a perfectly good naming convention
14:06:07 <nsITobin> ZLive from ZScratch built with ZBuild
14:06:13 <nsITobin> sounds like an ecosystem to me
14:46:58 <zedmatrix> i just found out the right mouse button pauses/resumes an mpv playback :)
14:52:24 <nsITobin> so whatcha think of my names?
14:57:08 <zedmatrix> could be, the archive thing i did packages just the build dir, so that the only thing left extract/ make installl
14:58:19 <zedmatrix> cool end of gcc-14.2.0... https://bpa.st/BZNQ
15:05:07 <nsITobin> this may be a bad idea
15:05:34 <nsITobin> but i just applyed my pre-ch8 wim to a tmpfs and now i am building it entirely in ram
15:07:10 <zedmatrix> hmm this is interesting... linux /boot/gentoo dokeymap looptype=squashfs loop=/image.squashfs cdroot
15:07:30 <nsITobin> malina must not like my crazy activities
15:07:30 <zedmatrix> i wonder if those are being passed to the rc script 
15:10:03 <zedmatrix> i am just looking at an old gentoo min cd
15:13:36 <zedmatrix> nsITobin: this is interesting ... http://0x0.st/86sh.txt
15:16:37 <zedmatrix> damn my gentoo didnt have squash-tools
15:20:57 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: I think I am gonna come up with a generic xml description of a software package
15:22:08 <zedmatrix> is that so you can use rpm still ?
15:22:40 <nsITobin> well idealy it would be better to generate spec files from xml sources in case i decide to change it to something else
15:27:11 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: ran out of space
15:27:24 <nsITobin> lol
15:27:34 <nsITobin> uhh how do i destroy this.. just umount?
15:28:01 <nsITobin> yep
15:28:20 <zedmatrix> its the build process that will eat that space up
15:28:44 <zedmatrix> cause i think it'll use like 3x the space
15:29:54 <zedmatrix> interesting my squash-tools are better than gentoos
15:30:07 <nsITobin> better or merely newer?
15:31:03 <zedmatrix> well the unsquash i built with all the decompressors, the gentoo one only had gzip
15:31:28 <zedmatrix> i would haveto dig into USE flags to fix that
15:32:05 <zedmatrix> i am also adjusting my qemu start to enable/disable web and ssh ports
15:37:42 <zedmatrix> hmm the gentoo minimum is upto 739M
15:42:01 <zedmatrix> oh boy my multilib version is missing libarchive :(
15:43:04 <zedmatrix> need to build a min tool iso 
15:57:02 <nsITobin> how large is the filesystem if it was just on the harddrive not in squash
16:00:58 <zedmatrix> my one i am still building is 3.6G
16:02:00 <zedmatrix> hmm my multilib is only 4.2G (mainly /usr) just using> du -h --max-depth=1 --exclude=/{proc,sources,zbuild} /
16:13:03 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: how do i know if my static lib is static
16:13:14 <nsITobin> or static binary i mean
16:14:55 <zedmatrix> just the file command
16:15:29 <zedmatrix> see the diff>> https://bpa.st/M36A
16:17:42 <nsITobin> k
16:17:48 <nsITobin> so the options simply don't work
16:17:52 <nsITobin> for this
16:38:00 <zedmatrix> you might haveto modify the rpm build script 
16:38:40 <zedmatrix> but anything it needs has to have the static libs as well, lfs has this option "--disable-static" 
16:39:07 <zedmatrix> so most of you depends for rpm don't have their static libs
16:42:26 <nsITobin> i was building wimlib
16:42:34 <nsITobin> or trying to staticly
16:42:39 <nsITobin> obviously didn't work
16:53:06 <zedmatrix> nsITobin: from this https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/packaging/packages/wimlib/-/blob/main/PKGBUILD?ref_type=heads anything that uses this should also have static libs
16:54:10 <zedmatrix> so anything you are passing to configure wimlib, needs to have their .a files
16:54:27 <zedmatrix> or the --enable-static wont work 
16:55:04 <zedmatrix> you literally need a base LFS with --enable-static 
16:55:36 <zedmatrix> i also got distracted again from my iso squash exploration with nanorc regex
17:08:13 <zedmatrix> heh might help if i install the package before getting distracted
17:22:37 <nsITobin> sorry been dealing with an aging cat not doing so hot
17:22:41 <nsITobin> what are we going
17:25:01 <zedmatrix> yea mine was complaining yesterday about his dry food
17:27:01 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: you saying i can't .. without stacking edge cases .. just force anything to build staticly as a fatass binary
17:27:17 <nsITobin> without the platform being that
17:27:20 <nsITobin> from the start
17:29:10 <zedmatrix> yep it'll make the (7-chroot) env easy to deal with
17:29:46 <zedmatrix> when i built my zbuild shared ... i had to move like 10 libs depending on where it was originally built
17:30:02 <zedmatrix> some only needed 7 
17:30:16 <nsITobin> why the fuck doesn't the elf loader just look for libs along side the binary before freaking the fuck out
17:30:24 <nsITobin> windows binaries work this way
17:30:51 <zedmatrix> you could just ldd rpm and add the missing libs to /opt/lib and update your ld.conf file
17:31:01 <nsITobin> not building rpm right now
17:31:50 <zedmatrix> what ever you are using is missing a lib, just copy that lib over to /opt/lib and update the ld.so.conf
17:32:41 <zedmatrix> window binaries have a shit load of dlls to call on
17:33:44 <nsITobin> ld-linux-x86-64.so.2
17:33:55 <nsITobin> see i want that in the binary too
17:34:34 <nsITobin> but i obviously haven't progressed far enough to attain that
17:34:46 <nsITobin> i'll get there
17:34:51 <nsITobin> all in good time
17:34:53 <nsITobin> :P
17:35:51 <nsITobin> doesn't even really matter if it is practically useful i really want to see what is entirely possible instead
17:38:32 <zedmatrix> thats part of binutils
17:39:30 <zedmatrix> err thats glibc
17:40:28 <nsITobin> yeah link it in too
17:40:51 <zedmatrix> glibc should already be built 
17:41:11 <zedmatrix> are you trying to bootstrap wimlib?
17:43:41 <zedmatrix> interesting gentoo>> /usr/libexec/rc/sh/init.sh
17:43:44 <nsITobin> nah i can build it fine from an lfs base providing i disable libntfs-3g and libfuse and maybe add a lib.. but what I think is cool to play with is initramfs
17:46:11 <zedmatrix> this might interest you https://lwn.net/Articles/436012/
17:46:32 <zedmatrix> im reading gentoo's init.sh
17:49:10 <zedmatrix> this is one of them https://0x0.st/86i1.sh
17:49:59 <zedmatrix> and -early.sh https://0x0.st/86ij.sh
17:50:12 <nsITobin> why is /run important?
17:51:40 <nsITobin> i really dislike the linux filesystem heirarchy
17:52:32 <zedmatrix> hmm https://github.com/OpenRC/openrc/tree/0932f23f940bd5e4994637fcdde4e0103e33d15a
17:53:18 <zedmatrix> they just seem to over complicate things ?
17:54:49 <zedmatrix> gentoos cd final unsquash is 2.3g, but i dont think it has build tools
17:56:45 <zedmatrix> yea everything for gcc 13.2.0 are dead links, waiting for the stage 3 to be extracted
17:56:59 <zedmatrix> er this one has 14.2
17:57:35 <nsITobin> for instance I'd rather prefix=/ and symlink /usr to /
17:58:43 <zedmatrix> there minimum is 739M + 232M(sysv) +239M(sysd)
17:59:40 <zedmatrix> nsITobin: wouldn't that get messy 
18:00:49 <zedmatrix> so if i run strip on some of the binaries i could get it smaller.... i have even booted the temp tools
18:01:02 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: ?
18:01:34 <zedmatrix> at the end of 7 to backup... you can use that to boot with... very min
18:02:02 <nsITobin> i am looking at attempting to merge usr back into /
18:03:10 <zedmatrix> you mean having /usr/bin separate from /bin?
18:03:25 <nsITobin> i mean i don't want a usr directory at all
18:03:59 <zedmatrix> but i think this might bite you... https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken/
18:04:29 <zedmatrix> isnt freedesktop don't they deal with X and wayland...?
18:06:11 <nsITobin> i don't want to do linux politics today .. later i assure you.. but today.. I am gonna change the book to prefix=/ and then symlink /usr to / 
18:07:55 <nsITobin> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/TheCaseForTheUsrMerge/
18:08:00 <nsITobin> this is what I don't want
18:08:17 <nsITobin> it is a solution for a solution that became irrelevant
18:08:34 <nsITobin> who actually shares their /usr across different installs
18:08:43 <nsITobin> what even point would you have
18:09:40 <nsITobin> back in the day it may have made sense .. containerized distributed bullshit doesn't share /usr
18:10:31 <nsITobin> it was just a solution to end the split while preserving the legacy case for having a split in the first place.. disk space and the semi-useful case back before the turn of the millinium that quickly became irrelevant..
18:10:49 <zedmatrix> you wont have Gnome/KDE without major patching/sandboxing
18:12:01 <nsITobin> i can't have a system i can stand unless i do it my self..
18:12:18 <nsITobin> and i think as much as the symlinks from root to usr will work so will usr just to root
18:12:19 <zedmatrix> like> https://bpa.st/PAYA
18:13:39 <nsITobin> k
18:13:41 <nsITobin> step one
18:15:06 <nsITobin> ln -sv / /usr then create the filesystem.. then compile everything with prefix=/ or the special case eq or just let the symlink handle it
18:15:16 <nsITobin> step 2 it hopefully all just works
18:15:19 <zedmatrix> means you will haveto rewrite your spec files :)
18:15:30 <nsITobin> i have only rewritten like 5
18:15:39 <nsITobin> out of the 80 some from cosmohill
18:15:48 <nsITobin> if i am gonna do it.. i need to make the change now
18:15:54 <nsITobin> before i write everything
18:17:48 <nsITobin> all i am missing on that front is justt making curl not insecure which is str8 forward just have to do it.. otherwise RPM is fully functional for its intended use
18:17:58 <nsITobin> and the spec files rewritten and updated
18:20:17 <zedmatrix> you might just haveto install > ca-bundle.crt 217Kb from mozilla
18:25:08 <nsITobin> Netscape Navigator
18:25:22 <zedmatrix> i think this might work... https://bpa.st/DMGQ
18:25:54 <zedmatrix> cause curl might be just complaining about the keys
18:33:54 <nsITobin> wait so makeca is something lfs specific?
18:39:23 <zedmatrix> sortof... arch has ca-certificates
18:40:50 <zedmatrix> nsITobin: yes make-ca is a bash script from Bruce and the team
18:43:59 <zedmatrix> it uses ... https://man.archlinux.org/man/certutil.1.en
18:51:47 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: basically if i mind the calls to create symlinks and dirs and set the prefix when it comes time to / i don't see how everything won't work
18:51:49 <nsITobin> https://dpaste.org/2UAi1
18:54:45 <zedmatrix> hmm that usr link might get messy
18:56:23 <zedmatrix> like> Some software expects /usr to be a real directory and will refuse to install otherwise.
18:59:45 <zedmatrix> hmm the libtool make check has "expected failure" they should fix those then :)
20:24:00 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: anything you know offhand?
20:25:40 <nsITobin> but i am gonna see it won't impact what i am currently doing unless it all Just Works(tm)
20:33:28 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: exec env -i HOME=$HOME TERM=$TERM PS1='\u:\w\$ ' /bin/bash --rcfile ./bashrc-lfsbuild
20:33:49 <nsITobin> so i can skip the lfs user
20:33:58 <nsITobin> and not have to swap out bashrc
20:41:13 <zedmatrix> i skip the lfs user too
20:41:48 <zedmatrix> since the environment only needs LC_ALL=POSIX, LFS=mountpoint and LFS_TGT
20:45:43 <nsITobin> well i am on an rh userspace so it is best for me to have a clean env
20:46:04 <nsITobin> all kinds of nasty bs
20:49:39 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: https://gitlab.com/binaryoutcast/snowball-os/baseos/-/commit/1b6308ad17047e0a16e91c489f20d4e00f380501
20:53:52 <nsITobin> https://gitlab.com/binaryoutcast/snowball-os/baseos/-/commit/5eb6b659d0c647553bd28e4f2d57dd7d71014d82
20:54:02 <nsITobin> there now it is JUST a chroot script
20:54:07 <nsITobin> not a pseudo-setup script
20:54:22 <nsITobin> https://gitlab.com/binaryoutcast/snowball-os/baseos/-/blob/TRUNK/res/lfschroot?ref_type=heads
21:02:44 <zedmatrix> yea i guess that is one thing i need is an auto chroot
21:21:39 <nsITobin> there that should take care of any lingering linuxnt nonsense https://gitlab.com/binaryoutcast/snowball-os/baseos/-/blob/TRUNK/res/lfschroot
21:23:49 <nsITobin> that should be good enough for most people to use largely on any system
21:24:04 <nsITobin> and specifically lfs
21:56:15 <zedmatrix> or just use my live iso :)
22:31:10 <nsITobin> does it have a chroot script?
22:46:36 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: so i am binutils as root so if i fucked this up when i do make install my system may be hosed.. isn't it exciting!
23:02:06 <nsITobin> sent where it was supposed to on gcc now so yeah manually trying that un-usr build
23:11:43 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: when I go for a clean build as in one i'd put my name to and dist I almost certainly will be using your livecd maybe with a few mods.. because you made it exist and it exists to be used
23:12:47 <nsITobin> especially to do the prep system for rebasing the rpms
23:56:16 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: k i am in far enough to get this mad plan is more work than I intend.. usr lives for another day
23:58:05 <nsITobin> back to curl and rpm ;)