02:22:32 <nsITobin>  how'd you make out flexing your musls?
02:22:42 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: 
02:33:16 <zedmatrix> pass2 was giving a hassle
02:34:05 <zedmatrix> but it mightof been that i was using a multilib gcc-15 host, gonna try the newer gcc-14 kernel 6.6 tomorrow
02:38:50 <zedmatrix> nsITobin: time to rest, think about it, and feed the yogurt addictive cat, he loves activia
02:39:08 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: been playing with dash
02:39:17 <nsITobin> but fedora didn't bother to include libedit support
02:39:43 <zedmatrix> i prefer dit 
02:40:05 <nsITobin> i think dash and bash should coexist
02:40:18 <nsITobin> dash should be the system shell and bash should be the interactive shell
02:40:34 <nsITobin> dash only if you can get away with it but i doubt one can
02:40:41 <nsITobin> dunno if i can LOL
02:41:33 <nsITobin> I'll give it a shot tho
02:41:35 <nsITobin> why not
02:42:34 <nsITobin> i am strongly considering handling /dev my self.. 
02:43:11 <nsITobin> for my self.. for the standard config of course sysvinit and patched udev.. but I think I want to only have the dev nodes i need
02:43:51 <zedmatrix> true like just mknod /dev/sda1,2,3
02:46:20 <nsITobin> the sys filesystem is interesting
02:47:28 <zedmatrix> just relaxing, downloading some discovery+ shows :)
03:14:19 <nsITobin> know the best part about being me.. no matter whom I am against my rhetoric really doesn't need changed because pretty much every power structure right now abuses those it has power over sooo..
03:15:49 <nsITobin> so let me illistrate it simply.. I am rage.. and whereveer i point is the machine cause kinda.. is the case nowadays.. so liberating in an oppressive sort of way
03:17:31 <nsITobin> oh right.. i am rage, that is the machine and I am decidedly against it lol
03:17:37 <nsITobin> well it is late
03:17:48 <nsITobin> so best not try and be .. words.
03:17:53 <nsITobin> :)
03:42:59 <zedmatrix> :)
14:44:24 <zedmatrix> yep from -support looks like gcc-15 is still causing troubles
14:51:20 <SuperPizza> oof
15:05:25 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: skip 15 just use 14 or 12 or 10 if it works.. 10 was a great solid release
15:05:32 <nsITobin> as was 8 and 7
15:05:55 <nsITobin> at least in terms of compiling a mozilla mess is conserned
15:06:54 <nsITobin> gcc as a service release model hasn't helped much imo
15:14:04 <zedmatrix> yea trying gcc-14
16:41:00 <zedmatrix> ok malina re-trying without usin gpt and using gcc-14.2 for both
17:25:18 <zedmatrix> keeps hitting the glibc req
17:25:57 <zedmatrix> SuperPizza: did you end up patching os_defines.h:83:20:
17:29:38 <SuperPizza> where?
17:32:34 <zedmatrix> libstdc++ 
17:33:09 <zedmatrix> i just kinda swapped out glibc for muslc
17:34:24 <zedmatrix> just starting from chapter 5
17:45:12 <SuperPizza> I... had no issues following the guide
17:47:34 <zedmatrix> which guide did you use, there is so many
17:47:52 <zedmatrix> most are outdated with gcc-4 or 5
17:55:43 <SuperPizza> I followed LFS 12.3, just changing GLibc to Musl, adjusting the instructions
17:56:35 <zedmatrix> mine keeps failing at building libstdc++
17:57:12 <SuperPizza> What's the error?
17:59:26 <zedmatrix> with all the __GLIBC prereq(x,y) in the osdefines.h
18:00:52 <SuperPizza> have you made symlinks to the dynlink?
18:01:14 <SuperPizza> ln -sfv ../lib/ld-musl-x86_64.so.1 $LFS/lib64;ln -sfv ../lib/ld-musl-x86_64.so.1 $LFS/lib64/ld-lsb-x86-64.so.3;ln -sfv ../lib/ld-musl-x86_64.so.1 /usr/bin/ldd
18:04:29 <zedmatrix> i am only using ../configure --prefix=/usr --host=$LFS_TGT --syslibdir=/lib
18:04:32 <zedmatrix> for the musl config
18:05:10 <SuperPizza> ./configure --prefix=/usr --host=$LFS_TGT --build=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu
18:05:30 <SuperPizza> make && destdir install
18:06:18 <SuperPizza> for musl
18:06:27 <zedmatrix> will try later, trying out the cross-musl from the site 
18:06:44 <zedmatrix> did you also install both linux and musl headers?
18:06:49 <SuperPizza> hyes
18:07:26 <zedmatrix> the ldd link is the one i think i was missing
18:08:17 <SuperPizza> no, it works without
18:10:39 <SuperPizza> Okay. You should have your LFS_TGT set to `x86_64-lfs-linux-musl`, not -gnu
18:10:40 <SuperPizza> maybe
18:12:24 <SuperPizza> btw, are you compiling gcc in one go, or gcc, musl, libstdc++?
18:15:03 <zedmatrix> probably > LFS_TGT=$(uname -m)-musl-linux-gnu
18:15:40 <zedmatrix> bin > gcc-p1 > headers > musl > libc++
18:17:21 <zedmatrix> just ran the cross make and probably the -gnu was messing me up
18:17:41 <SuperPizza> yea
18:18:03 <SuperPizza> LFS_TG$(uname -m)-lfs-linux-musl
18:19:45 <SuperPizza> I don't use cross-make
18:20:18 <zedmatrix> but i can see it worked, except its destdir needs a bit of work
18:20:37 <zedmatrix> and its in -musl
18:20:45 <SuperPizza> Now stdc++ compiles?
18:23:25 <zedmatrix> dunno, just building gcc p1
18:27:47 <SuperPizza> I'm building a guide based on LFS 12.3 for musl.
18:28:41 <zedmatrix> yea i document it in Kate as i go
18:29:24 <zedmatrix> its easier to copy and paste commands too
18:30:18 <zedmatrix> i switched to my gcc-14 cd builder, cause i thought maybe the multilib gcc-15 was throwing something into the mix
18:42:25 <zedmatrix> hmm maybe good> [Requesting program interpreter: /lib/ld-musl-x86_64.so.1]
18:45:40 <SuperPizza> Elfutils will be a mess, trust me
18:45:52 <SuperPizza> And forget about systemd
18:46:04 <zedmatrix> it looks better than before... https://bpa.st/LG7Q
18:47:25 <zedmatrix> ok clean phase before libstdc++
18:48:15 <SuperPizza> you could've used --with-glibc=2.41
18:49:36 <zedmatrix> i thought maybe that was causing the problem 
18:51:12 <SuperPizza> Here's my almsot complete guide: https://github.com/Super-Pizza/LFS-musl. I have changed a few other packages (Readline, Ncurses, gettext...), which may be optional
18:51:50 <zedmatrix> what is concerning is these seds > during the configure libstdc++ https://bpa.st/KNKQ
18:52:15 <SuperPizza> `make`
18:52:19 <SuperPizza> or break
18:55:26 <zedmatrix> this looks good > ls $LFS/tools/x86_64-lfs-linux-musl/include/c++/14.2.0/
18:59:52 <SuperPizza> it built?
19:00:20 <SuperPizza> cool
19:01:18 <SuperPizza> Have you looked at my guide?
19:10:02 <zedmatrix> yea i am still in the chapter 6
19:10:21 <zedmatrix> tho i am using 14.2, not 15
19:10:42 <zedmatrix> i shouldof pre downloaded the packages
19:18:03 <SuperPizza> Note: there's still no complete systemd alternative, so we have to use SysV-Init for now.
19:20:17 <zedmatrix> ? 
19:42:16 <malina> zedmatrix, to do musl, with lfs, there are in general a fair amount of patches .. not just lfs but general software.. most of these came form juan (void) and nathaniel (alpine) , rich himself and several talented musl afficionados.. a lot of them are not really "optional" but "mandatory" and whjy, is a very deep and braopd discussion... because of fundamental intricacies between how glibc might do something and how musl might do something
19:42:49 <malina> so just 'adjusting' by yourself won't really end well... it might seem so, but there needs to be a broader foundation of patches , policies and understanding to make it really fly
19:42:52 <SuperPizza> void-linux, alpine aports, yea
19:42:56 <malina> for the long term. but nothing better than to just DO
19:42:58 <zedmatrix> malina: thanks, i had the target screwed up
19:43:12 <SuperPizza> Hi malina
19:43:17 <malina> I do the same, I often did crazy patching and it led to mayhem but it's the best way to learn
19:43:22 <SuperPizza> :D
19:43:56 <zedmatrix> i still had -gnu in the target
19:44:58 <SuperPizza> oh and let's not forget systemd itself
19:45:05 <malina> but patching is a weird thing, because there are to main things about that: it might seem to work but down the lane things get really complicated and/or potantially broken due to policy(not like oh a small bug, I'll patch but fundamental aka axiomatic differences); and the other way round, despite NOT doing what might be best can still discover new paths whcih do in fact manage , by patches from 1).
19:45:19 <malina> but overall, 1 dominates and it's important to realise this
19:45:36 <malina> systemd is minor in the space of OSes
19:45:42 <SuperPizza> yea
19:45:53 <malina> very popular in linuxes now sure, but still not important if you don't feel for it, use it, etc.
19:45:59 <SuperPizza> it's heavily dependent on glibc.
19:46:25 <malina> I didn't/don't use systemd in my lfs, glibc nor musl so ye, I don't really notice
19:46:50 <malina> but when I am on the pub distros, they seem pretty regressed due to it ye
19:46:50 <SuperPizza> But now, LFS *requires* systemd for Udev
19:46:57 <malina> but it is what it is, hence lfs.
19:47:30 <zedmatrix> i might look at mdevd or eudev
19:47:41 <SuperPizza> Anyway, there are other udev implementations around.
19:47:47 <malina> oh, eudev is a bit stale? ye, the extraction seems to be a bit harder on musl iirc (I bootstrapped my musl a few months ago from the 352ish kb seed from bootstrappable but i been away in past 5-6 months now with other irl things=
19:47:57 <malina> not been douing comp stuff, don't recall any of my own work
19:48:29 <malina> well yes, I recall the eudev going to 'extyract' thing, which woriks on glibc iirc, but on musl if im not mistakenb it was an issue (a fe wmoths back= but again
19:48:38 <malina> I will be in such a mess tryign to find my own work agaain now
19:48:48 <malina> as i had forked everything under the sun a few months back when doiung the bootstrap 
19:49:15 <malina> it was seed to i386 then to amd64, then to musl then to bla and then i forked erm, juan's xbps and os on
19:49:49 <malina> all this i did very 'me' like it's all nmy own work too with my work on zstd and b3 forks
19:49:55 <SuperPizza> *popcorn* this is very interesting
19:50:16 <malina> so it's very, *very* avantgarde and ye, trying to figure out my won work now is like me trying to figure out my old hard fork of bitcoin ,p
19:50:47 <SuperPizza> Systemd is nice I think, but SysV still works
19:50:47 <malina> at the time it took me only 2 weeks ot make new demonitationms and bnetter implemetnartions but now, id look in the folder and i wouldnt even know wtf the .txt is
19:50:52 <malina> this always happens though
19:51:07 <SuperPizza> typos
19:51:13 <malina> I just donæt have the enertgy to "do it all" anymore alone and i sucvk at getting big guns in with their monopoly money
19:51:31 <malina> ye, of course it does
19:51:43 <zedmatrix> sysv is fast at booting
19:52:04 <SuperPizza> My biggest gripe with Linux now is how GNOME and GNU rule everything
19:52:11 <zedmatrix> its also nice to have an LFS Builder the size of a cd
19:52:11 <malina> ye,my lfs with my init (superman) which used sysv too partly, took 2.1 s 
19:52:34 <malina> but once i had the machien as a lxc/d and kvm host etc i guess it went a bnit longer
19:52:37 <malina> maybe 7s
19:52:39 <malina> i dont know
19:52:50 <SuperPizza> It takes 15s on my PC
19:52:55 <SuperPizza> to boot
19:52:58 <malina> but it's fast, inits aren't inherently slow , unless the logic is hanging
19:52:58 <SuperPizza> about
19:53:02 <malina> machines are fast
19:53:13 <malina> pure and simple. if one slows that down one might be doing it wrong
19:53:23 <zedmatrix> this is my iso project https://gitlab.com/zed-linuxfromscratch/live-iso/-/tree/main
19:53:29 <malina> I had a 2700 at the time
19:53:40 <malina> and still is , despite marketing like ridiculously good machines
19:53:47 <malina> I have a 7900 and a 7950x now
19:53:49 <malina> I mean...
19:53:56 <malina> it's ridiculous how much juice they have
19:53:58 <SuperPizza> I have a 7600 ryzen
19:54:01 <SuperPizza> yea
19:54:10 <malina> ye :)
19:54:19 <SuperPizza> As I said, I don't like how GNU and GNOME rule most of Linux. 
19:54:36 <malina> ryzens are amd\s equivalent of having probelms getting the little finger in
19:54:45 <SuperPizza> I don't mind Torvalds, the kernel is good.
19:54:53 <malina> I think GNOME lost that la long time ago lol
19:55:02 <malina> as far as I am concerned they became almost irrelevant
19:55:19 <SuperPizza> KDE, Xfce, LXQT, ...
19:55:21 <malina> duno, check their work force in past 5 years? up or down? and if so, by how much?
19:56:01 <zedmatrix> i like the lxqt for my tv-lfs machines
19:56:11 <SuperPizza> I use Xfce right now
19:56:19 <SuperPizza> on Arch
19:56:45 <zedmatrix> tho my main is KDE on Gentoo
19:56:52 <SuperPizza> oh
19:57:05 <malina> last year I doubled the speed of b3sum and zstd. I as incorporating it into my stuff as usual but this time i had to port it to my new xbps fork thing.. byut ye. will take me 8 months just to figure out what i was doing sigh.. so i kinda just put it off and don't use the ocmputers anymore.. which just makes it worse lol
19:57:22 <SuperPizza> I kind of see Gentoo between Arch and LFS
19:57:25 <malina> but then i use the pub distros and then it hurts me to see how bad they are or get instead of better
19:57:33 <malina> or just have fundamental issues which are ridicullus
19:57:37 <malina> ridiculous
19:57:44 <SuperPizza> like getting bigger?
19:57:49 <malina> ye, I guess that's a fair assessment
19:57:49 <SuperPizza> and buggy?
19:57:56 <malina> they do the binaries now finally too
19:58:01 <malina> with precompiled bins
19:58:09 <malina> forgot the name but ye, erm, that
19:58:13 <malina> no, just
19:58:18 <malina> poor
19:58:20 <malina> understanding
19:58:30 <malina> too much 'let's follow the hype'
19:58:41 <malina> tthey justy don't do it right
19:58:43 <malina> linuxes
19:59:23 <SuperPizza> JWZ’s Law of Software Envelopment: “Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can.”
19:59:24 <malina> systemd is no doubt a reason, as is wayland, erm, the other one,. gnome
19:59:33 <zedmatrix> i find Gentoo more stable than Arch
19:59:39 <malina> ye those.. thery wnated to keep work force so they made up reasons ot keep much man hours 
20:00:07 <SuperPizza> This is such an interesting discussion
20:00:11 <malina> and yet, in 1/7th of that input, they would have redone X , sysv and UI in general much, much better, buty then agin, that's why we have lfs
20:00:19 <malina> for better vision
20:00:44 <SuperPizza> THey don't fix the minor issue, they replace the minor issue
20:00:45 <zedmatrix> yea its fun to play around in LFS
20:00:55 <malina> i don't mnean just the base which has its own but i mean what we can use it for as a springboard to more accurately stay in line with hw development
20:01:38 <SuperPizza> I think one important thing is being able to manage the packages in some way.
20:02:07 <zedmatrix> yea still working on that part 
20:02:10 <SuperPizza> Like, you don't want some program? good luck finding all of its files
20:02:45 <SuperPizza> malina, do you have a github or smth?
20:03:01 <zedmatrix> thats y the PMs log the destdir install 
20:03:37 <SuperPizza> "Entering Fakeroot Environment"
20:03:46 <malina> no, I do not
20:03:50 <malina> I don't realytl use social media
20:03:54 <malina> ir 
20:03:56 <malina> c
20:04:03 <malina> since icq got shut down
20:04:06 <SuperPizza> do you share your projects in some way?
20:07:57 <malina> I try with some of those I expect to be able to contrinbute or aid
20:08:10 <SuperPizza> I was dumb once, and tried to uninstall "libc6". I didn't, but yeah. We learn.
20:08:32 <malina> but sadly, irc has mostly old dragons which are lazier than a stick of amber silicon dioxide
20:08:55 <SuperPizza> It's an old system
20:09:07 <malina> dragons? Ye
20:09:21 <SuperPizza> IRC is old. ANd kinda outdated (in a way)
20:09:21 <malina> bordering on incontinence ,p
20:09:33 <malina> ah, it's pretty ok for us nerds
20:09:43 <malina> screen, text, group. done
20:09:48 <SuperPizza> Though, I like the Fediverse (Mastodon and stuff)
20:09:57 <malina> none which i know
20:10:04 <malina> i have hrd of mastodon as i have heard of tweet
20:10:25 <SuperPizza> Mastodon is meant to be part of a decentralized social media platform.
20:11:26 <malina> nothing on chat syustems is 'private' so decentralised ot me is irrelvant
20:11:56 <malina> as long as we have ME/PSP we are pretty scrood anyway
20:12:23 <malina> making amd sev sem stuff kinda semi pointless in principle but useful in practice
20:12:30 <malina> which is hwy it will be great but ye
20:12:34 <malina> life is life
20:12:39 <malina> full of shite
20:13:09 <zedmatrix> well i was on irc before icq using mirc on windows 98 :)
20:13:45 <SuperPizza> and I think the intel ME has had ulnerabilities making your whole system broken
20:13:50 <SuperPizza> *vulnerable
20:20:05 <malina> ye i think i did icq before irc
20:20:12 <malina> but both were within sameish time frame
20:20:20 <malina> maybe irc came mostly a few yrs later with quakenet mostly
20:37:48 <zedmatrix> ok onto bintutils pass 2
21:00:14 <zedmatrix> ok sofar gcc pass 2 is going 
21:07:58 <SuperPizza> aaaand?
21:26:09 <zedmatrix> sofar good
21:27:56 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: spectacular
21:28:09 <nsITobin> i need to script 456
21:28:14 <nsITobin> badly
21:29:04 <nsITobin> still would be nice to see if i can work out how to do a static rpmbuild.. static curl isn't hard.. i know it can be built that way
21:29:11 <nsITobin> static rpm*
21:30:02 <zedmatrix> oops found a problem in my chroot script, forgot to abort if vkfs doesn't mount
21:30:02 <nsITobin> let's see if i can logic this out with mah brain
21:30:22 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: feel free to submit a pr to enhance mah script you stole the function names of
21:30:30 <nsITobin> :P
21:31:01 <zedmatrix> had a bunch of these :) mount: /mnt/lfs/dev: mount point does not exist. \n dmesg(1) may have more information after failed mount system call.
21:32:08 <zedmatrix> but it entered the root , came up bash-5.2#
21:34:05 <zedmatrix> nsITobin: should be able to just add > || { zprint "Error Mounting /dev. Exiting."; exit 1; }
21:34:55 <zedmatrix> there is your pr :)
21:36:28 <nsITobin> fedora didn't enable libedit on dash in epel8
21:36:32 <nsITobin> shame on them
21:53:31 <zedmatrix> i think the first word is your problem
21:56:03 <zedmatrix> actually i think i just need > mkdir -pv $LFS/{dev,proc,sys,run}
22:03:10 <zedmatrix> nsITobin: forgot a few lines in the chroot like PS1
22:13:59 <zedmatrix> oops forgot the /bin/sh ln
22:14:56 <nsITobin> you need -E to make it respond to up down left right etc
22:15:02 <nsITobin> for dash
22:15:10 <nsITobin> i like dash but it is pretty limited
22:16:06 <nsITobin> would be a great fork project to add stuff to like a minor bit of tab completion the ability to reevaluate ps1 when interactive nothing major and not anything that unposix it
22:16:31 <zedmatrix> building chapter 7 musl
22:16:49 <nsITobin> with garlic butter?
22:16:56 <nsITobin> and some chives
22:31:00 <zedmatrix> hmm sofar ok, except for this warning from python > https://bpa.st/R67A
23:13:51 <malina> god irc is so weak
23:13:55 <malina> though
23:14:05 <nsITobin> weak?
23:14:08 <nsITobin> irc is great
23:14:11 <nsITobin> i run an irc server
23:14:18 <nsITobin> i just happen to be here
23:22:01 <malina> npå
23:22:14 <malina> no i just mean none of you seem ot have any characther
23:22:19 <malina> character*
23:22:29 <malina> another forum dying
23:22:41 <malina> and then you will cry
23:22:53 <malina> good
23:22:57 <malina> whatæs your irc server
23:23:02 <malina> I prefer a forked silc
23:23:16 <malina> -/silcd
23:23:43 <malina> dont woprry nsITobin , itæs not you, it's the world
23:23:53 <malina> people are becoming idiots more and more
23:24:09 <malina> americanisation I guess
23:24:14 <malina> are you american?
23:24:21 <malina> wiuth your irc server?
23:35:13 <nsITobin> back..
23:36:05 <nsITobin> Yes I am American.. I am not proud and I believe I haven't been free since 2001
23:36:14 <nsITobin> perhaps never