00:02:36 <zedmatrix> nsITobin: i was looking around and that gentoo uses --rbind and --make-rslave during its stage3 build
00:04:02 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: it likely makes more sense to just copy into sysroot and if $TARGET_SYSROOT then clear and update it selectively
00:04:58 <nsITobin> $TARGET_SYSROOT/setup*
00:05:30 <zedmatrix> hmm i always wonder why those guys talk about system-nspawn
00:05:35 <zedmatrix> *systemd
00:06:26 <nsITobin> and if that was my only solution.. I'll just drop this computer off in the dumpster
00:06:33 <zedmatrix> i tell the arch wiki is where you need to look https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Systemd-nspawn
00:06:59 <zedmatrix> it is an easier solution maybe :)
00:06:59 <nsITobin> i swear to god.. if i am forced to run these piss poor modern solutions on my personal system as a matter of course.. I'll just log off the system 
00:07:26 <zedmatrix> what is more important, easy of use or sanity ?
00:07:32 <nsITobin> the easy solution is install windows 7 and use a UXP browser and not do much else
00:07:52 <nsITobin> that's the easy solution
00:07:59 <nsITobin> because I literally designed it to be
00:08:18 <nsITobin> windows 7 was my idea after all.. according to the commerical at the time 
00:08:20 <nsITobin> lol
00:08:25 <nsITobin> and you know what?
00:08:46 <zedmatrix> they have a rhel derivative there that would get them mad 
00:09:20 <zedmatrix> tho i still like windows 7 over 10
00:09:31 <nsITobin> that windows 7 boot logo.. THAT was my idea i sent THOUSANDS of bug feedback to microsoft bitching about how shitty the no logo and progressless bar was for vista during the beta .. i wrote 20 different varients and submitted em thousands of times.. 
00:09:57 <nsITobin> I wanted that changed
00:10:02 <nsITobin> and that one time.. it worked
00:10:16 <nsITobin> but then they added the shitty progressless circle spinner throbber
00:10:29 <nsITobin> ... and that was when I knew.. windows was gonna be over one day
00:10:33 <nsITobin> that and metro
00:11:24 <nsITobin> and the piss yellow and puke green color scheme the windows classic gdi style gets if you force it then try to reghack win2k's color scheme into it.. this was a pre-release for 8 before they killed the blur
00:21:02 <nsITobin> zedmatrix: I think how I am gonna handle these git repos and rpm repos is baseos and extras.. just that.. extras will have category directories with package subdirs .. same depth as baseos.. simple categories.. 
00:33:58 <zedmatrix> yea i am cleaning up my blfs repos
00:34:39 <nsITobin> i should cross-compile curl so it is available inside the chroot
00:43:17 <zedmatrix> yea it is handy incase you loose or forget a package
00:43:36 <zedmatrix> but i like to have the package source ready, its faster :)
00:48:10 <nsITobin> FINALLY IT IS BUILDING
00:48:17 <nsITobin> in the chroot
01:04:10 <zedmatrix> nice
17:18:41 <zedmatrix> cool parsing xml in bash 
19:45:24 <nsITobin> I'll resume work on snowball tomorrow.. a break is in order 
19:45:51 <nsITobin> how is your stuff coming .. i can focus more on what you are doing a lot more lesierly
19:45:54 <nsITobin> zedmatrix
19:46:34 <nsITobin> you linked an iso or something either yesterday or the day before could you link it again unless I am misremembering
19:46:44 <nsITobin> i did say I would test your stuff on-demand
19:47:00 <nsITobin> to help avoid the but it works on mah system
19:49:29 <zedmatrix> nsITobin:  parsing the book xml using a custom xsl 
19:50:14 <zedmatrix> and also building a LXQt depend tree 
19:50:32 <zedmatrix> but i think i break is in order too 
19:50:33 <zedmatrix> nsITobin: 
19:50:49 <nsITobin> So ordered.
19:50:59 <nsITobin> :)
19:57:09 <zedmatrix> this is mah xsl https://bpa.st/MJBA i just needed the *.ent files in ../
19:58:32 <zedmatrix> CaptainTobin: test script to build zbc files https://bpa.st/6QFQ
20:04:29 <CaptainTobin> i could likely strip down your xsl to just have it crap out simple direct bash scripts
20:14:20 <zedmatrix> but it saves some copying and pasting, i still haveto adjust them since the build portion i use may vary from the book
20:19:37 <CaptainTobin> well what did I use the jhalfs scripts for.. not to build jhalfs.. to grab scripts as a starting point.. cosmohill's rpm specs serve the same purpose and was wholey unexpected
20:21:59 <zedmatrix> yea and this just trims it down more and you can use the dev blfs book
20:22:18 <zedmatrix> not sure how it works on the lfs since it doesn't have that info 
20:22:33 <CaptainTobin> well i only need it to address scripting
20:22:38 <CaptainTobin> and package name
20:22:40 <CaptainTobin> and version
20:22:42 <CaptainTobin> maybe url
20:23:03 <CaptainTobin> and scripting i don't need depends for lfs
20:23:47 <CaptainTobin> i would do rpm spec files manually cause they need adjusted on the fly but if i can get the lfs sysroot selection as a direct extract that would be halpfuk
20:23:55 <CaptainTobin> -ful*
20:24:39 <CaptainTobin> but too much automation doesn't work well.. cheating done half-assed screws you over later
20:24:43 <CaptainTobin> have to cheat completely
20:24:45 <CaptainTobin> you see
20:25:19 <CaptainTobin> https://gitlab.com/binaryoutcast/snowball-os/baseos/-/blob/TRUNK/packages/Makefile?ref_type=heads#L91 these
20:25:40 <CaptainTobin> save the rpm deps are what i need to get from the lfs book
20:27:14 <zedmatrix> that is fine for LFS, but when it goes BEYOND its where the deps are needing tracking :)
20:40:25 <CaptainTobin> zedmatrix: and rpm will track then as I define em
20:40:33 <CaptainTobin> as automatic deps are disabled by macro
20:40:48 <CaptainTobin> i like autoprovides tho
20:40:50 <CaptainTobin> that is nice
20:40:58 <CaptainTobin> but autodeps are horrific
20:41:13 <CaptainTobin> makes bootstrapping nearly impossible unless you --nodeps everything
20:41:24 <CaptainTobin> so i'd prefer explicit deps in the spec file
20:42:52 <CaptainTobin> BLFS is a resource not a guide to follow
20:42:58 <CaptainTobin> lfs is a guide to follow
20:43:18 <CaptainTobin> if blfs was a guide to follow it would be more .. endpoint
20:43:23 <CaptainTobin> like glfs
20:43:33 <CaptainTobin> tho i am using that as merely a guide to xorg and wine
20:43:37 <CaptainTobin> x11*
20:44:10 <CaptainTobin> the baseos cutoff is openbox picom pulseaudio x11 and xterm
20:44:27 <CaptainTobin> a fully bootable unix-like system is baseos
20:44:37 <CaptainTobin> well except server just exclude graphical
20:44:40 <CaptainTobin> but sti;;
20:46:46 <CaptainTobin> the extras repo will have categories.. programs libraries servers applications (graphical) toolchains and misc .. rpm groups will follow the same except it will be Repo/Category == rpm group tho for sanity sake baseos will just do .. packages cause it is one unit.
20:46:58 <CaptainTobin> plus or minus graphical re server
20:47:01 <CaptainTobin> if i bother
20:47:44 <CaptainTobin> BaseOS/Libraries or Extras/Applications
20:48:01 <CaptainTobin> but physically baseos will just have packages/
20:48:17 <CaptainTobin> i think it makes sense and great for consistant consistancy
20:49:59 <CaptainTobin> oh yeah
20:50:04 <CaptainTobin> forgot environments
20:50:12 <CaptainTobin> for de packages
20:50:46 <CaptainTobin> if there were a rich selection of shells i'd have shells too but there really is only dash and bash plus some specialist shells
20:51:46 <CaptainTobin> LFS does list deps but it is a seperate page
20:51:56 <CaptainTobin> not like the blfs required recommended
20:51:58 <CaptainTobin> etc
20:52:20 <CaptainTobin> i used it to try and slim down the base lfs selection to an lfs sysroot
20:52:23 <CaptainTobin> for rpm
20:52:28 <CaptainTobin> bootstrapping
21:21:26 <zedmatrix> you can always try zirconium 1.01
21:24:24 <zedmatrix> but i am just gonna rest 
21:24:34 <CaptainTobin> zedmatrix: of course I'd TRY it
21:24:39 <CaptainTobin> poke at it
21:24:46 <CaptainTobin> try and bust it as a normal user for you
21:25:54 <CaptainTobin> zedmatrix: if i wanted to be lazy i'd just use whatever binary iso you released and add rpm on top of that and not worry about my own bootstrap generation
21:26:05 <CaptainTobin> and otyher people should do that
21:26:10 <CaptainTobin> cause you been doing good work
21:26:36 <zeckma> CaptainTobin: Writer of GLFS here. The book was just meant for "hey, here's how you can go from LFS to Steam+Wine without any bullcrap." Wanted to be as linear as can be while still presenting choices along the way. Seems people want that, but with no multilib and less gaming stuff
21:26:39 <CaptainTobin> me.. I'm clearly insane.. trying to have netscape linux by way of win16 somehow
21:26:47 <zeckma> I've been thinking but I'm not sure how to go about that.
21:27:25 <CaptainTobin> zeckma: I am a special case on the multi-lib and video game stuff.. most people want steam and vidja games
21:29:19 <CaptainTobin> zeckma: I consider glfs to basically be LFS part 2: Let's be graphical .. FOR FUN!
21:29:25 <CaptainTobin> how much better can that get
21:30:17 <CaptainTobin> some people build a system to run games.. some people build a system AS the game
21:30:23 <CaptainTobin> either is valid imo
21:31:31 <zeckma> i also treat it as a sort of LFS 2. Basically MLFS first, or the core, then GLFS, or the graphical environment, the base for BLFS and SLFS, then finally stuff from BLFS and SLFS, like Hyprland and Firefox
21:32:34 <CaptainTobin> firefox is banned
21:32:42 <CaptainTobin> for being terrible fucking software
21:32:56 <CaptainTobin> and I at this point am as qualified as anyone else to make that call
21:33:09 <CaptainTobin> about mozilla and firefox
21:33:14 <zeckma> Banned?
21:33:20 <CaptainTobin> from my systems
21:33:35 <CaptainTobin> if i want mozilla I cna always try and take back my xul platform from the moonies
21:33:42 <CaptainTobin> or just use seamonkey
21:33:44 <CaptainTobin> :P
21:34:35 <CaptainTobin> we need foolproof instructions on how.. if you have the hardware .. to build chromium
21:34:49 <CaptainTobin> also why is the linux foundation horrible?
21:36:04 <CaptainTobin> anyway zeckma thanks for doing glfs i hope i adapt the x11 to wine with wow64 nomultilib to rpm well enough to indicate as such in the background info i eventually should write
21:38:14 <zeckma> I wish a new browser came about that didn't rely on mutliple dependencies, wasn't a fork, and doesn't rely on vcpkg (like Ladybird). It seems we are gonna wait a while for that, since no one wants to make a browser, just fork an existing one.
21:38:41 <zeckma> And no problem! It's been fun so far.
22:18:01 <CaptainTobin> zeckma: the real issue is rust
22:18:07 <CaptainTobin> even chromium is powered by rust
22:18:31 <CaptainTobin> as long as rust is a thing.. your code is a service with a timelimit
22:19:03 <CaptainTobin> you won't be able to just build something from a decade ago without also building period rust.. where as lots of old ass C basically still works today
22:19:26 <CaptainTobin> source code is meaningless unless you can USE it
22:19:36 <CaptainTobin> may as well just be marketing guff
22:19:40 <CaptainTobin> you can't prove