00:07:50 <nsITobin> hai tonymec|away
12:55:06 <XP_TOBIN>  well never let it be said I don't suffer for my craft.. my wrist and hand hurt like hell hard to flex and twist ut
12:55:46 <XP_TOBIN> deff gonna hamper efficiency
12:58:39 <XP_TOBIN> i'd go to the er but what are they gonna do for a couple of tendons spasming in your wristhand.. they ain't gonna give me drugs at most they will wrap it up and say try and don't use it.. well i already know that
12:58:58 <XP_TOBIN> and do that
14:39:31 <nsITobin> There is only Seamonkey!
14:39:39 <nsITobin> SeaMonkey*
14:44:38 <frg_Away> yo!
14:45:02 <tomman> let's check if Clownflare is still blocking us today...
14:45:54 <nsITobin> another day another agrument with mozilla.. i am removing element.. I can't trust my self not to just call out their bullshit whenever i see it best to just get rid of it..
14:46:25 <tomman> nope, Turnstile still broken
14:47:05 <nsITobin> There all gone.. I didn't need their help for 8 years I don't need it now.
14:47:35 <nsITobin> tomman: anything i can test here for you?
14:48:14 <tomman> Go here: https://www.romhacking.net/translations/ then click on any page number of the results list (or just Next)
14:48:23 <tomman> that will trigger Clownflare's crap
14:48:42 <tomman> the captcha never shows here, all I get is  a blank space
14:48:46 <nsITobin> ah hah
14:49:07 <tomman> last time they blocked us, at least it did showed, but gave an error when you ticked the checkbox
14:49:36 <tomman> this time no checkbox, nothing renders at all, just a "Verify you're human by doing this" page with nothing in the middle
14:49:41 <nsITobin> ok unrelated but we MUST get prefers-color-scheme in
14:49:52 <nsITobin> that does break sites
14:50:05 <tomman> the console reveals nothing interesting, except for a blank log entry that CLEARS the console when opened!
14:50:06 <nsITobin> oh look
14:50:16 <nsITobin> I THINK it IS because sm doesn't have prefers-color-scheme
14:50:24 <nsITobin> Timestamp: 7/22/24, 09:49:09 CDT
14:50:24 <nsITobin> Warning: Expected media feature name but found ‘prefers-color-scheme’.
14:50:25 <nsITobin> Source File: from DOM
14:50:25 <nsITobin> Line: 0, Column: 1
14:50:25 <nsITobin> Source Code:
14:50:26 <nsITobin> (prefers-color-scheme: dark)
14:50:39 <nsITobin> that could be fucking up js execution
14:50:47 <nsITobin> checking failmoon
14:53:31 <nsITobin> works in Pale Moon
14:53:51 <nsITobin> i seriously think js code is checking for prefers color scheme and it is getting an erronious response back
14:54:02 <nsITobin> and then the verification doesn't load
14:54:20 <nsITobin> HOWEVER in the background it DID try and eventually load it but then just cleared and refreshed instead
14:55:06 <nsITobin> getting this too dunno if it is related Timestamp: 7/22/24, 09:53:14 CDT
14:55:06 <nsITobin> Error: Error: We have already registered a distinct blocker with the same name: ReleasingTimerHolder
14:55:06 <nsITobin> Source File: jar:file:///usr/lib64/seamonkey/omni.ja!/components/nsAsyncShutdown.js
14:55:06 <nsITobin> Line: 114
14:55:52 <tomman> hey, now that you mention that, I fired up the browser global error console, and saw those two things you're talking about
14:55:54 <nsITobin> I am almost CERTAIN the current cf issues are due to not supporting prefers-color-scheme
14:56:53 <nsITobin> BinOC -> xulorg -> Pale Moon Respositories -> UXP
14:57:04 <tomman> Advertencia: Expected media feature name but found 'prefers-color-scheme'.
14:57:05 <nsITobin> i could have used the bookmark but lol
14:57:05 <tomman> (prefers-color-scheme: dark)
14:57:29 <tomman> Error: Error: We have already registered a distinct blocker with the same name: ReleasingTimerHolder
14:57:31 <tomman> Archivo fuente: jar:file:///opt/seamonkey/omni.ja!/components/nsAsyncShutdown.js
14:57:32 <tomman> Línea: 114
14:57:39 <nsITobin> already pasted it
14:57:41 <nsITobin> but ye
14:57:42 <tomman> both get reliably logged there on that Clownflare failed challenge page
14:57:59 <njsg> tomman: do you get the checkbox, or something else?
14:58:02 <nsITobin> there is a political joke in there but I'll let someone else make it
14:58:12 <njsg> tomman: last I checked I seemed to be getting something alternative but it still didn't load
14:58:20 <nsITobin> its blank sits tries to load and gives up until it tries again
14:58:28 <tomman> njsg: I get a blank space where a captcha should be
14:58:39 <njsg> this time it might have been they demanding webgl, but I can't enable that here, and didn't have time to test on a machine where I can enable it
14:58:58 <tomman> nsITobin: I also see references to forced-colors, prefers-contrast and prefers-reduced-motion
15:00:00 <njsg> 0722|15:55:56 <+nsITobin> I am almost CERTAIN the current cf issues are due to not supporting prefers-color-scheme <-- okay, that'd be beyond stupid, but this is cloudflare we're talking about.
15:00:18 <tomman> also, apparently @media(width <= 720px) also shows an error
15:00:29 <nsITobin> UXP Issue 1752 Implement "prefers-color-scheme" https://repo.palemoon.org/MoonchildProductions/UXP/commit/e946ca91fb032149131087ce24fbba886c53ee18
15:00:43 <nsITobin> unless the media queries are bugged
15:00:52 <njsg> tomman: okay, that blank space is the same I got last I checked
15:01:02 <tomman> in the name of all the 151 original Pokeymanz, what the hell has obscure CSS features to do with "the security of your connection"!?}
15:01:05 <njsg> it sounded like they had solved it for pale moon and I just assumed it required webgl
15:01:08 <tomman> GO DIE IN A FIRE CLOWNFLARE
15:01:19 <tomman> So basically the checkbox MIGHT be there
15:01:20 <njsg> so maybe it actually requires prefer-color-scheme? does PaleMoon have that?
15:01:22 <tomman> just... invisible?
15:01:22 <nsITobin> our impl is superior to Mozilla's and simpler
15:01:35 <nsITobin> njsg: you're behind by like 2 minutes lol
15:01:52 <njsg> nsITobin: it's hard to keep along reading the backlog, sorry
15:02:07 <njsg> I almost feel like I'm a terminal sending XOFF to the channel :-P
15:02:13 <nsITobin> njsg: don't applogize i was kidding
15:02:19 <tomman> nope, inspecting the space only shows 3 nested DIVs
15:02:30 <njsg> tomman: allow me to correct your cursing
15:02:33 <tomman> one has "turnstile-wrapper" as ID
15:02:37 <njsg> tomman: go install crowdstrike software, cloudflare!
15:02:39 <nsITobin> tomman: devtools will have to be used cause dom manipulation
15:02:48 <nsITobin> view source will only show what it initally gives
15:02:53 <tomman> But the innermost div is EMPTY
15:03:02 <tomman> so nope, the checkbox never gets rendered
15:03:06 <tomman> but no script error gets logged
15:03:10 <nsITobin> it's dynamically loaded
15:03:15 <tomman> it is like CF gave up much earlier, yes
15:03:40 <tomman> WAIT}
15:03:44 <tomman> it came up eventually!
15:04:00 <tomman> I ticked it... and...
15:04:11 <tomman> ...it kept spinning and spinning and spinning
15:04:11 <nsITobin> did it?
15:04:14 <tomman> ...blank again
15:04:23 <tomman> it did came up on its own after a LONG time
15:04:26 <nsITobin> cause it spun and never came up and reblanked for me
15:04:30 <tomman> didn't dicked with the inspector at all
15:04:36 <nsITobin> maybe the code has a timeout fallback
15:04:47 <tomman> but after checking it, I got the spinner, and eventually it blanked itself again
15:04:55 <njsg> it might even be that the timeout just reinstates turnstile, and that you're supposed to get a captcha instead
15:05:20 <njsg> no luck with a palemoon UA string, just in case they whitelisted it by hand?
15:05:40 <tomman> yeah, it comes up again after ~2 minutes or so
15:06:01 <tomman> tick the box, it keeps spinning...
15:06:09 <tomman> and... blanks again after 15 seconds or  so
15:06:22 <tomman> the dev console logs a Invalid Object error with some fancy printing
15:08:41 <tomman> behavior changed a bit - the spinner kept spinning for longer this time
15:08:43 <tomman> then page reloaded
15:08:54 <tomman> and I got a warning "it's taking too much time, reload the page"
15:09:20 <tomman> OK, now I can trigger the checkbox to appear if I mouse over with the Inspector
15:09:33 <nsITobin> njsg: near as I can tell the UXP patch alignment issues aside should be applicable to seamonkey that would at least answer the question if this is it and if frg needs to prioritize the mozpatches or whatnot i'd expect anyway
15:09:46 <tomman> finally, after several attempts and threatening with the inspector, Clownflare Police cleared me to continue
15:09:58 <tomman> this is insanity
15:10:42 <nsITobin> the UXP impl is simpler and pref based and allows for disabling it for reasons.
15:10:59 <tomman> no properties were toggled, no scripts were touched
15:11:19 <tomman> Clownflare simply... let me continue after minutes of dicking with the Inspector
15:11:28 <nsITobin> devtools or domi?
15:11:32 <tomman> devtools
15:11:59 <tomman> but the last two times I got the checkbox to render, it "magically" came up after pointing at the empty space with the Inspector
15:12:08 <tomman> that's... weird
15:12:09 <nsITobin> i hope to do some advancements to DOMi eventually
15:12:21 <tomman> almost like Clownflare is dicking with my sanity, which is certainly what they were doing
15:12:45 <nsITobin> well the whole process is just to see how much people will tollerate
15:12:53 <nsITobin> cause there is no objective answer
15:14:21 <tomman> can't wait until Clownflare has its own Clownstrike Moment™ and goes under faster than a turd in my toilet when being flushed down
15:14:30 <tomman> but for now...
15:16:22 <tomman> https://developers.cloudflare.com/waf/reference/cloudflare-challenges/#supported-browsers
15:16:52 <tomman> "major web browsers"
15:17:17 <tomman> Chrome, Safari, Firefox, Chrome, Chrome, and Safari.
15:17:24 <nsITobin> they are dictating access to a vast majority of the web
15:17:31 <nsITobin> why is this okay
15:17:40 <tomman>  Challenges are not supported by Microsoft Internet Explorer.
15:17:50 <tomman> ha, they still believe IE is a major browser, at least
15:18:01 <nsITobin> it is
15:18:11 <nsITobin> but not trident
15:18:12 <nsITobin> lol
15:18:23 <nsITobin> edge is just ie'd chrome
15:18:28 <nsITobin> except worse
15:18:38 <nsITobin> frankly I prefer IE over Chrome
15:18:47 <nsITobin> but I prefer realzilla over chrome
15:19:14 <nsITobin> Borealis isn't passing either
15:19:42 <nsITobin> and it has prefers-color-scheme
15:19:52 <nsITobin> but that may be UA sniffing
15:20:02 <njsg> this can be big, it is possible they are shifting from a "we support most browsers through fallbacks" to a "we only support chromium-like browsers with very recent features" approach without being explicit about it. Someone else did point towards that, I forget where that was.
15:21:38 <nsITobin> njsg: that is so much better phrased than what I said ;)
15:22:28 <njsg> ah, so it was you. sorry, memory and stress might not mix so well
15:22:40 <nsITobin> njsg: i been saying it for years
15:23:09 <nsITobin> but I am sure others have too
15:23:37 <nsITobin> njsg: we have to find ways to de-stress
15:26:14 <njsg> I'll write a utility for that, and I'll call it something short
15:26:15 <njsg> decss
15:28:19 <tomman> "If you have browser extensions, they might lead to unpassable challenge loops. To fix, disable your extensions and reload the page."
15:28:31 <nsITobin> adblockers
15:28:36 <nsITobin> largely
15:28:49 <tomman> so not only Chrome, but Pure Unmodified And Unadulterated Chrome
15:28:51 <nsITobin> but yeah war on extensions period will come sooner or later
15:29:24 <tomman> I thought War on Extensions was already in full strength since Google decided "adblockers are a threat against our business"
15:29:45 <nsITobin> modifing the JS or content of a page is a security issue you see
15:31:30 <njsg> it's not extensions, I got the failure (albeit that was a week or so ago...) in a separate profile that doesn't feature an ad blocker or noscript
15:31:40 <njsg> not that it'd be wise for CloudFlare to make that a problem
15:32:03 <njsg> tomman: good thing Mozilla didn't copy Google there
15:32:21 <njsg> dammit, what was that. Oh, the sound of the sarcasm reserve depleting.
15:32:33 <tomman> and that's how we got the Boeing 737 MAX
15:33:41 <tomman> now, to be fair, if we let Clownflare and Google decide what types of airplanes would be allowed at airports, they would have driven the entire industry bankrupt overnight, because "any type older than 10 years is not allowed to fly"
15:34:40 <tomman> ...OK, maybe Airbus would have survived because the EU would have challenged them in courts, so the A350 would be allowed to fly... in Europe only
15:37:46 <nsITobin> well i guess I should clean up my environment so i cna build seamonkey with that patch
15:37:50 <nsITobin> see if it halps
15:37:52 <nsITobin> also https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/4739353088fc
15:37:59 <nsITobin> mozilla's version was done in stylo
15:38:04 <nsITobin> UXP's is in nsLayout
15:38:23 <nsITobin> well nsStyle
15:39:35 <nsITobin> no its...
15:39:43 <nsITobin> i dunno it isn't as good lol
15:42:02 <njsg> tomman: don't mind me as I taxy this rolls-royce to the gate...
15:42:56 <tomman> well, at least a Silver Phantom breaks far less than a Trent
15:44:18 <njsg> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Snecma_Olympus_593_engine.jpg
15:44:40 <njsg> an interesting technology, for a different age
15:45:15 <njsg> I think it was described as being actually quite low on consumption for the speed, it's just that there's a sweeter spot on the usual top speed for airliners
15:45:56 <njsg> still, IIRC, a few military jets couldn't sustain the same speed without wet thrust, while four of these would fly the aircraft on dry thrust at cruise altitude
16:02:32 <nsITobin> njsg: what's the difference between wet and dry thrust?
16:06:40 <njsg> nsITobin: non-efficient use of fuel for further thrust, with afterburner, the engines are designed in a way they can provide the thrust for that cruise speed efficiently from the fuel, but other parts of the flight, I think at least takeoff and trans-sonic climb need more thrust and so these stages do afterburning
16:07:31 <nsITobin> ah
16:07:51 <njsg> I think there was actually a design proposed that'd have gotten rid of this need, with a different shape that reduced drag and perhaps something else too to the point where it didn't need so much fuel, and was lighter and could work without afterburners
16:08:18 <njsg> and also reduced the sonic boom, which would have opened a bunch of new routes for the aircraft
16:09:25 <njsg> (it was pretty much limited to journeys like transatlantic so that it'd not cruise over land, *and* also had a somewhat limited range that I think was also not enough for the pacific, but I might be misremembering here)
16:13:35 <nsITobin> *** failed to import extension "evolve"
16:14:03 <nsITobin> hgext3rd yeah it is a t3rd
18:29:09 <nsITobin> UGGHGHHBBHJ<Dbjhkqwe3abjkfnebwsijkol
18:35:07 <tomman> cannot be a cat, so please remove the 3 year old kid from the keyboard, please~
18:58:17 <nsITobin> Occures to me I don't need a persistant connected client if the logbot is a thing
18:58:29 <nsITobin> which means only ONE instance of Tobin allowed.
18:58:30 <nsITobin> lol
18:58:35 <nsITobin> and I'm it.
18:59:24 <frg_Away> nsITobin as long as you didn't post your password UGGHGH... 30 minutes ago
19:00:04 <nsITobin> sorry yeah I had to boot to windows because can;t find six and i am NOT in the mood to bash against linux.. I am in test a patch and see if it helps kinda mood lol
19:10:46 <frg_Away> nsITobin np. Just wan't sure if you posted a password
19:11:03 <frg_Away> and now sleep
19:11:07 <nsITobin> rest well