00:15:02 :-) 08:59:20 Tobin: good one, I think :-) 13:20:45 Good morning 13:22:30 nsITobin hi 13:24:39 hi nsITobin 13:25:59 gogs is pretty nice as a basic forge not as github/gitlab parity as gitea is but it is also more focused on core functionality and has a less radical refactors 13:26:22 nsITobin: so if you apply the gitlab central queue --enable-thunderbird-rust is now an option for the suite and it is enabled by default. 13:27:02 WG9s: awesome 13:27:37 nsITobin: issue is if mozilla vendors a later version of rust before the TB folk snc up my nightly builds will fail 13:30:53 sucks we can't have a few tinderbox machines like the old days 13:31:26 my theory is the retired it because it was redundant the tree is always a dumpster fire now 13:32:16 its a bs theory but it makes me feel better 13:32:24 we used to also have a rule you can't check in on red in tinderbox so did not have to have this tree is closed 13:32:36 people used to play by the rules 13:33:44 oh cool gogs json dumps the database 13:34:32 also had tindrbos builds for the ancillary not really supported projects and if your patch turned it red you were obligated to try to help the team on that project figure out how to fix their build 13:34:52 that was always how I treated pull requests 13:35:19 you break it.. one don't break it.. two.. fix it.. also three please don't make a mess of the commit history doing it 13:35:23 so many people resisted 13:35:34 i seem to remeber having to do that for Camino (which was the macOS browser before FIrefox worked on macOS) 13:35:44 I remember camino 13:35:50 firefox ate it 13:35:58 Firefox as a project was NEVER intended for Macintosh 13:37:03 yes but at the time was a not really supported Camino which ws FIrefox on macOS and if your patch broke camino you were obligated to help fix the issue 13:37:08 according to the original readme for the project.. Firefox was designed and develop for Windows and Unix desktops to avoid all the "whore" features in netscape communicator 13:37:25 I guess those times are behind us 13:37:57 some are some aren't some just need a few patches ;) 13:39:21 and camino was the premere Mozilla browser on Macintosh classy and designed specifically to take advantage of the seemless ui and features. 13:39:41 but on a similar not i think if your stupid TB patch breaks suite builds you should be obligated to help fix 13:41:14 absolutely or if the area is a specialist or edge case area be on hand to help the specialist 13:41:44 or coordinate before hand to make sure the landing is good 13:42:35 These are all things I learned from Mozilla which is why it is so hard to see Mozilla not do these things and even react badly or lash out when people bring it up, such as my self. 13:42:51 but hard to enforce since no more tinderbos and no comm-central suite builds in treeherder 13:44:11 nsITobin: I somehow went from invited to mozilla summits to be banned for like from bugzilla because of complaining about such things. 13:44:24 life not like 13:44:36 Well last I knew Thunderbird planned to after the suite was gone to start merging all comm components into thunderbird appcore .. I got the feeling a few wouldn't mind a cc suite reviving if it intended to keep up and go the distrance but the rest seem neural to seeing it as a blocker 13:45:55 but that was the feel what they actually think or would say if you asked them.. no clue 13:46:02 i would actually prefer they did that so that their stupidity did not break suite builds 13:46:18 WG9s: where you gonna get the mailnews core lol 13:46:28 they will merge it with mail total integration 13:46:35 forking it 13:47:01 forking Mozilla code.. who'd be silly enough to attempt that.. 13:47:02 and doing are own development 13:47:09 not mozilla 13:47:12 TRUE 13:47:16 ABSOLUTELY TRUE 13:47:27 forking the comm-central part which mozilla does not support at all 13:47:54 depends on your definition of Mozilla 13:47:58 as an entity 13:48:02 or set of entities 13:48:06 to me .. its all the corp 13:48:15 at this point MZLA and the foundation or shells 13:48:19 are* 13:48:29 legal ones but shells none the less 13:49:29 200 thousand dollars of half a million for development? I don't see it for one and two millions of dollars isn't enough to deal with XUL? 13:49:37 maybe i should get those Godzilla people who sued them back in the day to re-institute the complaint 13:50:03 isn't Godzilla public domain yet? 13:50:58 I know what is tho.. Infengement Free Cartoon Mouse on a boat! 13:51:35 Godzilla might not be public domain in Japan until 2055 or later for the original version of the character. 13:51:35 trademark people on Godzilla included everything zilla in the trademark and somehow gave Mozilla a special exemption 13:52:02 is that why Mozilla was all don't call your stuff -zilla? 13:52:20 exactly 13:52:29 they had a special exepmtion 13:53:15 for mozilla and chatzilla 13:53:18 green mozilla would melt their special exemption and flip you off 13:53:50 wonder how Filezilla faired 13:53:54 did it get threatened too 13:54:21 someone in the godzilla frnt eveidently preferred the Mozilla browser so they got an exepmtion 13:54:45 eh forget godzilla anyway.. Gamera is really neat 13:54:47 Filezilla not sure that Much 13:54:51 I hear he is filled with turtle meat 13:55:05 i always liked Reptilicus 13:56:32 sputting out all that green glop 13:56:48 spurting out all that green glop 13:57:01 likely does both 13:57:02 lol 13:59:04 nsITobin: I am old so remember this crap 13:59:22 I am 74 13:59:33 It's good stuff to watch 14:00:11 So remeber things that pissed me off in the past 14:01:46 ? 14:02:42 about things mozilla did in the past to piss me off that not sure you might be ounger 14:02:52 younger 14:03:11 Hloe needs a turtle and an oversized lizard if he can have King Gidorah :) 14:03:12 I am younger but I been fixated for .. well shit half my life now 14:03:36 mozilla was created in 1998.. its 2024 i was born in 1985 14:04:49 so 35 years younger than i am - https://youtu.be/rGEIMCWob3U 14:05:51 I feel old a lot especially with the sciatica, joints hurt more than ever.. bending wrong screws me over for at LEAST 2 days ain't got no hair.. 14:06:08 nowadays even the IRC is too hard for diginatives 14:07:45 a lot of my favorite television and movies are before I was born of course i have lots of stuff I like from my time as a living being but there is just so much out there that I never got to be apart of or really witness that those just slightly younger than I have absolutely zero intrest in or think it is dumb 14:08:35 i feel sometimes like an aboration of the last generation still capable of giving a crap 14:08:46 i remeber when firefos was first released and it took fire because people were scared by the internet but had a family member who was their computer expert all of whom used Linux at the time and steered them to Firefox 14:10:06 and oddly the antitheses of what it is now. The Firefox UI was platform agnostic and not trying to fit in with the OS idea of what an app ui should be. 14:10:58 so if you went form Linux to windows to mac the firefox UI was the same 14:11:27 I go for more of a balance by default OS style, fixes if they need it, add a touch of personalized flare.. done.. Otherwise I prefer full skinning that can be changed. 14:12:19 WG9s: no.. sorry i don't mean to contradict you but I am gonna contradict you so Firefox UI looks like Gnome/Apple on every platform 14:12:56 except that didn't actually contradict you so nevermind 14:13:03 .. I need a soda 14:13:53 originally looked like pre gnome unix.linus on all platforms when first released 14:14:41 the *stripe skins 14:15:09 no i am gonna confuse my self .. going to look instead 14:15:29 talking about Firefox 1.0 14:16:52 nsITobin: so pinstripe? i remember that was trying to get an apple compliant HID thing 14:17:03 I think Firefox as originaly envisioned hit its peak at Firefox 2.. cause Firefox 3 was when changes started happening 14:17:39 I started using Firefox in 2005 and back then it was a great browser 14:17:48 the style, the UI, the features.. a real successor to XPFE design and features 14:18:06 and i think they went off the rails when Windows came up with Aero 14:18:18 I also started using Ubuntu in that year, and with those old versions of Ubuntu everything just works 14:18:39 WG9s: I only stopped using Aero styles 2 years ago 14:18:40 Then came Unity desktop 14:18:43 what does that tell you 14:19:33 they did go overboard 14:19:45 not that i did not get Firefox to work correctly with Aero with multiple monitors when others could not but thought the whole idea was lame 14:20:05 but it really became an issue when they started drawing parts of the aero UI like the titlebar and frame them selves THAT is when it became a technical burdon 14:20:35 so I am the idiot who got Firefox 4 to work correctly with Windwos Aero 14:23:13 they had 2 stupid invalid assumptions. one was if multiple monitors they were identical aspect ratio and resolution and second was that the taskbar was on the primary monitor. 14:23:59 to be fair.. linux window managers of the era had the same issues.. some still do.. 14:24:13 I was at a mozilla summit and had to skip one afternnon's sessions to fix this stupidity. 14:24:27 but on Windows this shouldn't have been an issue.. I been successfully multi-monitor since win2k 14:24:40 its solid 14:24:52 well until windows 8 14:27:10 well the firefox 4 crap was scheduled to be announced at this Mozilla summit and it did not work with multiple monitors under Windows without my effort 14:27:31 the ONE thing I wanted from that redesign I never got 14:27:44 I had to skip sessions to get it working in time for the announcement 14:27:44 I wanted that cool ass glowing progress line across the top of the tab 14:28:12 i know that isn't anything LIKE what you are describing but i was following it very closely at the time 14:28:16 hell I was likely here 14:28:26 reaslly! 14:28:57 still trying to get --disable-mailnews and a splash screen I'm sure 14:29:04 right njsg 14:29:46 well silly me had two monitors at work and not same aspect ratio or resolution so what was going to be released did not work for me. 14:30:21 Do you remember 64bit during 1.9.x? 14:33:01 My department would not pay for a second monitor for me but the IT guy for the compaly CEO got me a seclnd one and then one 4:3 and one 16:9 and not same rosolution and i was showing it to a friend at work and e pointed out that it would not work if you moved the taskbar to the second screen and had it had screen bottom 14:33:30 that is such a strange result 14:33:34 nsTobin 14:33:42 why would the taskbar have anything to do with window placement? 14:33:59 nsITobin: I only remeber Windows 64-bit to be shit 14:34:06 back in the XP days 14:34:39 Especially seeing as the Windows shell was optional .. technically still is but good luck accessing anything they moved to metro 14:34:56 nsITobin: hs to do wth taskbar autohide working 14:35:36 with original Firefox code only worked if taskbar was on the primary monitor 14:38:23 is all stupidity with the windos compositor. was really supid talkbar autohiding depended on not using the bottom row of pixes to display the windows but instead of restrng the row for the compositor required every app tto reserve that row of pixes themselves and Firefox only did it on the primay monitor becuase they eienot relaize you could move the taskbar to the secondary monitor 14:39:13 but should have all been taken pair of by the windows os and not up to every app having to do this 14:40:07 wait.. Mozilla did not know you could move the windows taskbar 14:41:22 they knew you could move it but for some odd reason thought it still had to be on the primay monitor 14:41:26 i mean assuming hardly anyone would move it off the main screen sure that sounds like mozilla but not knowing the basic operation of an OS target? 14:42:55 but the real issue was the windows os and compositor should have been reserving the bottom row of pixels just in case and reporteing one row short to the app when reporting the resolution 14:43:33 expecting hundereds of applications to reserve the bottom row of pixels for this insted of reseveing it in the compositor was just lame 14:44:13 at the time hardly anyone had 2 monitors and this was before the Firefox version was released 14:44:28 release was going to take place at the SUmmit 14:44:45 that is a TERRIBLE idea 14:45:04 so i was frantically trying to fix this so when release announced it would actually work correctly 14:45:44 was what i consider a windows but but trying to work around so the relase would not look bad 14:47:02 if needed to reserve bottom row of pixes for autohide then the compositor should have prerted the verticl size wone row of pixels shors so apps sould work as normal and not each have to do this 14:47:10 Do you know who made the decision to focus primarily on firefox? 14:47:35 I don;t remember 14:49:13 I can also tell you that shat was FIrfox would have become what is no Chrome had not the powere that be pissed of Ben Goodger chief Firefox engineer who got pissed off and left to go to Google and become chief engineer on Chrome 14:50:01 he got pissed becuuse fo what happened when they wanted to demote TB to a less supported app 14:50:23 what we need is a way to remove Mozilla away from San Francisco/SV 14:50:31 far, far away 14:56:12 i may have posted this befor but backin the day only popel working on TB were chief engineer Scott McGreggor, mailnews guy Dave MOse Icons form Arvid and me doing both UI work and testing of IMAP on other mail servers becuase the then current Mozilla code only worked on one server implemetation and did not actully follow the standard. 14:58:02 anyway mozilla folk decided they wanted not to give as muxh support to TB and gave us 3 options to selct between as to how the ongoing support would work. I don;t rember what the three choices were and which one we cose but importnat thing was we uninimously shose one of the three. 14:59:37 and they came back with tough shit we had already chosen and you did not pick the right one. so ended up with Scott leaving almost immediately and his best buddy Ben Goodger leaving not to long after. 15:00:01 WG9s: besides devtools what would you need in this component that would help you test the firefox rendering engine? 15:01:13 nsITobin: I would need time to think on that 15:01:46 The ability to spawn any arbitrary chrome address would be nice i bet 15:03:37 but if back in the day the mozilla folk had kept their word and abided by our TB vote Ben might have never left and devleoped what became chrome for Mozilla 15:03:50 things would have been much different 15:05:15 The whatwg may never have been formed.. Mozilla might still be an application framework and internet enabled platform.. webidl may never have happened.. and XML and namespaces would have won out vs sloppy quirks and living quriks and standards.. 15:05:28 those are just the ones I can think of instantly 15:06:07 yes but this was mozilla seaid you have a vote and then renegged on abiding by it. sounds kind of TRumpish. must have thought it was rigged 15:06:14 and things would be more balanced between markup style and script 15:10:54 but that was definitly a rigged election. 15:12:15 was mozilla does not care about the results we had already selected on of the three you surprised us by picking one of the others so are ignoring your choice. 15:14:01 Oh i am sure the decision was made with the best telemetry at the time WG9s 15:14:07 "rigged election" 15:14:11 did someone called me? 15:14:32 to be fair, election fraud is a time honored institution.. it's hardly unique or partisan 15:14:50 of a practice* 15:14:51 hmm maybe that is why frg_Away is so trying to disable telemetry in seamonkey 15:14:57 obviously in execution 15:15:22 Mozilla's stance on telemetry is "disable it and you might as well not exist anymore" 15:15:55 this is why they killed ALSA support on Linux, despite the not so insignificant number of users out there with Pulseaudio problems 15:15:59 first and foremost.. telemetry slows the fuckin code down and makes everything overcomplicated.. They just exchanged seamonkey and thunderbird by doubling the code size with telemetry 15:16:13 but fi they had just come and said this si what we decided rahther tha giving us a sham coice that they were going to ignore the results of would have gone over so much better 15:16:19 ...but most of those users either opted out, or are using distro builds where the telemetry has been disabled 15:16:52 if we had know everything then.. I mean trends were forming abuses made features lied about dropped changed I do remember that to an extent 15:17:25 saying we will do whichever of these yhree you pick we will do and then saying sorry you voted for the wrong one is just wrong 15:18:17 its so common an experience for me personally i can't agree more 15:18:32 if you sonder I am thinking perhaps i can get ahold of Scott to get his perspective. and perhaps even Ben 15:19:07 One of these days one of us needs to publish a book.. Mozilla from the comm perspective 15:19:23 The biggest problem is: lets remove feature x because only 1% use it. 15:19:44 I was the cause of one of Ben's signature amn Damn Damn back in the cvs days 15:20:13 WG9s: you told me its a good story, feel free to tell it again for the logbot soon 15:20:36 if not now 15:20:40 :) 15:20:46 i was just getting into trying to help and not usre how to do bugzilla but Ben adding some code that broke about:source so that it crashed 15:21:33 so i send him a fix then he tried to order a new dell workstation and did not print the repeipt before trying to same it and the broswer carshed 15:22:16 and nest thing hi did was read hisw emailand first one there was my fix for the issue. that is why it got posted with the Damn Damn damn comment 15:22:54 I am mister Damn Eamn Damn 15:23:07 I am mister Damn Damn Damn 15:23:10 ye 15:27:46 switching to winders 15:27:47 I could tell it better if i could type better point was he did not first print the receipt then tried to save the page so browser crashed and he had no way to either save nor print the receipt. 15:33:56 I guess if just repeating it here for the log not impotant that TObin is gone 15:35:50 so Ben's frustration as less that tyring to save before printing resulted in no receipt. It was that if he had done his email before buying the workstation the very first one would have had the fix for the save page as crash. 15:37:13 He sent me a very nice email about this that is stupidly seem to have lost 15:37:49 He sent me a very nice email about this that I stupidly seem to have lost 15:39:31 ah backnow so you need ot look at the log to get the rest of the story 15:40:00 the reeeeest.. of the story 15:40:02 lol 15:40:10 nsITobin: but you did say i had told it already 15:41:04 it just made me think of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rest_of_the_Story 15:42:03 caught up 15:42:26 oh ok well so Ben's frustration at trying to save before printing resulted in no receipt. It was that if he had done his email before buying the workstation the very first one would have had the fix for the save page as crash. 15:42:38 is kind of most significant thing you missed 15:42:50 yeah 15:43:24 He sent me a very nice email about this that I stupidly seem to have lost 15:43:51 should have printed it out and framed it .. along with Damn Damn Damn 15:44:06 exactly 15:44:53 on dot matrix 15:44:55 :P 15:49:01 ns is that a reference to old printers or to the movie SpaceBalls 15:49:18 frg_Away: do you have all the patches I been linking as I been completing them or would you like me to zip them up and email them to you with an email address you will tell me lol 15:49:49 WG9s: it can work for both 15:50:10 my luggage combo is 12345 15:50:51 that one is just to the movie 15:51:02 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfkNvOOiZ_8 15:51:35 Mozilla when the google money finally dries up for good. 15:52:05 prove me wrong 15:56:18 movie is absolute god 15:56:20 gold* 16:00:47 https://youtu.be/a6iW-8xPw3k 16:02:16 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sen8Tn8CBA4 16:04:43 of course aside from the self destruct scene this is my favorite scene in the movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWmVlgIR2HA 16:05:08 perhaps in trying to find a solution to issues we should comb the desert! 16:05:57 of course that one we all saw coming. 16:06:41 did you ever wath Red Dwarf? 16:06:45 yep 16:07:04 so THis is not a drill this is a drill? 16:07:31 you know the guy who says "we ain't found shit" is tim russ better known as Tuvok from Star Trek Voyager 16:07:33 I have a Smeg Off Red Dwarf coffee mug 16:09:01 funny thing was probably abit later than should have been was when stat trek was up to voyager that they made fun of. 16:09:58 and vise versa but i do think was a reference to jupiter mining company was maybe even in TNG so perhaps before voyager 16:10:39 but definitely made fun of the holgrahic doctor 16:11:17 Doctor Who was pissed The Doctor never got a name in the show 16:11:37 the EMH 16:11:40 not the timelord 16:11:48 and that's why lol 16:21:15 nsITobin: I always thought it funny that one of the Doctors was the same guy who played the lame son in All good Creatures Great and Small. 16:22:05 google claims it was Peter Davison 16:22:09 i didn't know that 16:22:17 Oh was brother not sone 16:22:21 won 16:22:26 son 16:23:38 so hwo was based on the book dr christian herriot in a country vet clinic but his bosses idiot son was played by https://youtu.be/a6iW-8xPw3k 16:25:35 so hwo was based on the book dr christian herriot in a country vet clinic but his bosses idiot son was played by Peter Davison 16:25:40 bad cut and paste there 16:32:29 I guess idiot was a bit harsh, but not quite up to the medical acumen of the other 2 16:36:14 Or in trying to take anything as seriously as the other two 16:37:10 [1133-27] <irc.binaryoutcast.com> CONNECT: Client connecting on port 6667 (class General): moonchild!webchat⊙1dcwfn (184.15.128.140) [Web User] 16:37:11 [1133-31] <irc.binaryoutcast.com> QUIT: Client exiting: moonchild!webchat⊙1dcwfn (184.15.128.140) [Quit: Page closed] 16:37:21 that sure doesn't look like sweden to me 16:39:29 west virgina frontier.. not nuke he has comcast business class or whateve rthey call it these days.. not a200 he has spectrum and is somewhere in texas.. hmm someone wants to play. 16:40:36 deff a home line 16:40:41 so not a vpn 16:44:35 got em 16:44:43 somdcomputerguy Joined: 2014-02-23, 17:25 16:44:43 Location: Greenbrier County, West Virginia 16:45:33 I have a Swiss friend who lives near Sweeden Maine 16:45:52 heh 16:49:52 somdcomputerguy is not a threat but might become an annoyance if they don't do something constructive like speaking to me. 16:51:55 anyway just distraction tactics continuing with mah work 17:19:51 cloning mozilla-central on hg 17:26:40 WG9s: so edge.. has no function to set a picture as a wallpaper in windows.. 17:28:48 Timestamp: 7/29/2024, 12:28:47 PM 17:28:48 Error: NS_ERROR_NOT_AVAILABLE: Component returned failure code: 0x80040111 (NS_ERROR_NOT_AVAILABLE) [nsIShellService.setDesktopBackground] 17:28:48 Source File: chrome://communicator/content/setDesktopBackground.js 17:28:48 Line: 46 17:29:21 this is current release 17:29:23 btw 17:29:41 (yes I often use xul browsers to manage my wallpaper or i used to) 17:37:38 WG9s: did you add the missing brand.ftl to locals on cc? 17:38:18 cause that was one of the changes in my previous efforts .. obviously you wouldn't know about it being missing cause you haven't been able to run it unless you go to dist/bin and run it that way 17:39:32 maybe not obviously more like less likely 17:41:06 the other issue which can only be solved by porting DllBlocklistOOP OR patching m-c is an issue within the sandboxBroker 17:41:20 Thunderbird is accounted for 17:45:41 damn the jsm loader is gone 17:45:49 i think 17:46:18 not yet.. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1881887 17:48:59 https://groups.google.com/a/mozilla.org/g/dev-platform/c/HJHAaGKSeGU/m/k_L5xwBfAAAJ 17:50:15 "privileged extensions" 19:36:10 * nsITobin checks irc.. 19:36:18 rest well frg and wg9s 19:48:56 oh yeah, the comb the desert was a specific kind of great gold 19:52:52 in case it's unbeknownst to someone: https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/spaceballs_combing.png 19:53:28 or maybe the youtube links included that, I was trying to avoid opening it :-) 20:01:56 ./mach build-backend 20:02:00 i mean hi njsg 20:02:01 lol 20:05:31 what did they do the build output.. the tierbar is being printed in plaintext 20:06:03 this expects a full terminal emulator .. 20:31:38 i've never (& still don't) use Aero (& often have to mention that, cause programs *assume* you have it) 20:39:31 well aero the style is long dead 20:39:38 but aero the tech is still there 20:39:46 but is being supplanted by xaml islands 21:11:38 [1241-11] the other issue which can only be solved by porting DllBlocklistOOP OR patching m-c is an issue within the sandboxBroker 21:12:00 if i bothered to remember to do it and not spend the last hour hunting down why it isn't working 21:12:03 ... 21:13:51 btw just ran across this even tho its apperently been talked about a lot.. well i was busy in 2018.. https://github.com/captbaritone/webamp 21:14:18 this level of quality is what I expect when someone tells me a webapp replacing a desktop one. 21:14:31 dunno if it works in seamonkey 22:39:42 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4c6nFGt1iM 22:50:08 Sompi: that's the best way we can keep C 22:50:28 unfortently if we use that tactic.. they will redefine C to be nothing like C 22:50:37 but could attach C to the green movement 22:55:43 every time when environmentalists touch something, it ends up consuming more energy and being more wasteful on resources than it originally was 23:11:13 njsg: https://postimg.cc/crdZQsDb 23:11:20 Buoy 23:11:59 I fixed up my component and made it show 23:12:00 on cc 23:17:58 well I am done for the night i need to eat something.. still be on for a while longer if needed