03:01:42 <nsITobin> fireftp is busted
03:01:52 <nsITobin> js syntax errors
03:01:55 <nsITobin> no surprise
09:31:06 <WG9s> now posting the source to nightly/latest-253-nightly-source  I seem to have write permission there and a beeter folder name anyway because makes it clar that this folder contains the source for the latest nightly and not the latest release
09:49:13 <njsg> tobin: which errors? hopefully one of the known cases that might be just replacing constructs? or is it something deeper?
11:55:44 <nsITobin> syntax errors some funky nonstandard trycatch logic.. some issue with its assigned var for gPrefService.. and other things
11:56:05 <nsITobin> I am gonna try and fix it because its basically 85% a file manager already
11:57:00 <nsITobin> and reform it as a component in its ftp client form
11:58:24 <nsITobin> it also ships with an old compiled xpt but xpcom isn't bitching about it.. but i am not sure if typelibs can be loaded from extensions still
11:58:46 <nsITobin> guessing it isn't affected by binary xpcom manifest blocks
12:30:03 <nsITobin> mmm Borealis Security UX Enhancements. white for normal, red for broken, gold for secure, and green for ev and the urlbar and statusbar panel are consistant
12:30:49 <nsITobin> code works great just need to update it for things like Ci instead of Components.interfaces
13:18:23 <nsITobin> https://i.ibb.co/D4GCvB1/image.png
13:21:18 <nsITobin> ignore the white menubar grey toolbox styling it isn't part of this just the urlbar and security button statuspanel
13:29:00 <nsITobin> frg_Away: seems series files can reference files in subdirectories or elsewhere can a series file reference another series file?
13:34:48 <frg_Away> nsITobin I didn't try but I doubt it. This is at best very unsupported territory.
13:36:09 <frg_Away> > for things like Ci instead of Components.interfaces
13:36:11 <frg_Away> Both are usually valid. Prefer the shorter one for less typing :)
13:40:03 <frg_Away> status meeting in 20 minutes https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2024-08-18
13:40:31 <frg_Away> hi tonymec
13:40:42 <tonymec> hi frg_Away
13:42:43 <WG9s> here for the meeting.  hi everyone!
13:45:05 <tonymec> hi WG9s
13:45:28 <WG9s> hi tonymec
13:46:21 <nsITobin> oh that is happening today
13:46:40 <frg> status meeting in 14 minutes https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2024-08-18
13:46:43 <nsITobin> i been too busy trying to get productive I didn't prepare anything for the meeting LOL
13:46:48 <WG9s> frg: that was the shole point Ci was defined as a shortcut for COmpontents.interfaces back when we started to enforce maximimum line legts in the source
13:47:20 <WG9s> if it does not work for something old you are doing you could just define it and use
13:47:47 <nsITobin> the old guideline at least as far as I know still is.. match surrounding code, don't make style changes as part of a functional change, and if in doubt ask someone
13:47:52 <nsITobin> guidelines*
13:49:25 <nsITobin> SEEMS like common sense but i never see it anywhere outside mozilla-decentant project
13:50:39 <nsITobin> i think it comes down to consistant code style is consistant even if its an older style.. its where there are mixed styles that my brain goes wtf
13:50:40 <nsITobin> lol
13:51:16 <frg> status meeting in 9 minutes https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2024-08-18
13:51:23 <WG9s> but the whole idea was to get a way to not make things hard to follow becuase of line braking and make it less likely to have to line break if everyone understands Ci means Components.interfaces I think the abbreviation just makes the code more readable.
13:52:11 <nsITobin> WG9s: and yet Mozilla makes super long ass cpp functions like and this is only a slight exaggeration MaybeSomeDooberOrSomeOtherConditionFallable
13:52:30 <njsg> hi .*
13:53:00 <nsITobin> greetings the njsg
13:54:39 <frg> status meeting in 5 minutes https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2024-08-18
13:54:48 <frg> where is the IanN boss?
13:55:16 <nsITobin> Components.interfaces is better for readability but you'd have to either give up the 80 col soft-limit, expand it, or learn what Ci stands for cause it ain't no longer defined at the top of every script no more
13:55:56 <nsITobin> that was gramatically terrible even for me, I'm sorry lol
13:56:06 <nsITobin> good question frg
13:58:43 <WG9s> he did change his nick to be ready
13:59:12 <frg> tick tick tick...
13:59:29 <WG9s> or is actually he both here and away.  I am not sure e know if he is comming or going.
13:59:53 <frg> status meeting time https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2024-08-18
13:59:57 <WG9s> and reminds me of an old inappropriate joke.
14:00:05 <frg> lets wait a few minutes for the boss to show up
14:00:11 <frg> hi rsx11m
14:00:16 <njsg> rsx11m: hi
14:00:20 <WG9s> hi rsx11m
14:00:32 <rsx11m> hi frg njsg WG9s ++
14:00:43 <WG9s> frg: is Bruce coming?
14:01:33 <rsx11m> ping IanN IanN_Away
14:01:34 <frg> The one I know is in the US :)
14:02:12 <WG9s> yes IanN is "Born in the UK"!
14:03:39 <njsg> is there something missing in restoring closed tabs to restore filled in form values?
14:03:48 <WG9s> As opposed to Cheech and Chong "Born in East LA"!
14:04:13 <nsITobin> njsg: sessionstore needs a lot of love
14:04:30 <njsg> I mean have tab 1 with history A, B, B has a form, fill something in, close, restore, B's form has nothing, move to A in tab history, move back to B, now there is form content
14:04:37 <frg> njsg I don't think this is done. sessionstore needs an overhaul
14:05:02 <frg> Ok lets start Agenda
14:05:13 <frg> I am taking minutes
14:05:16 <njsg> I was thinking the occasions I've seen were because of "sometimes it's cached, not always", but then maybe I should look deeper...
14:05:26 <frg> Nominees for Friends of the Fish Tank
14:05:48 <WG9s> IanN in absentia for l10n work
14:06:07 <nsITobin> ye
14:06:12 <rsx11m> ++
14:06:29 <njsg> thirded
14:06:31 <frg> WG9s for unbreaking comm-central with adding rust stuff from TB and IanN for adding a central l10n repo and coordinating with mmozilla so that pontoon finds it.
14:06:43 <njsg> seconded/thirded :-)
14:06:48 <rsx11m> ++++
14:07:09 <nsITobin> right tbrust
14:08:16 <frg> Action items.
14:08:47 <frg> Need to edit the website again now that our old / second irc bot is online again.
14:09:00 <frg> otherwise bau
14:09:16 <nsITobin> maybe add a logbot.seamonkey-project.org with links to both so everyone always has a central location to find A logbot
14:09:40 <tomman> hello world~
14:09:45 <tomman> barely on time, but here this time
14:09:49 <frg> hi tomman
14:09:56 <nsITobin> sup
14:10:03 <IanN> i'm here now
14:10:04 <frg> nsITobin is it worth a subdomain?
14:10:16 <nsITobin> perhaps not.. a slash page maybe?
14:10:19 <frg> Hi IanN we are at Action items.
14:10:23 <WG9s> IanN: so are fearull leader appers.
14:10:56 <nsITobin> or just update it as planned ;)
14:10:56 <rsx11m> greetings!
14:11:09 * WG9s ways for those to young to get it, that is  Rocky and Bullwinkle shout out!
14:11:19 <nsITobin> I am gonna rewrite the currently blank frontpage of my bot to link to the other bot as well
14:11:43 <nsITobin> maybe setup nginx if 502 to redirect to the other one
14:11:48 <IanN> Status of the SeaMonkey Infrastructure
14:12:55 <frg> nothing from me. CentOS 7 is now eol as stated and we use it one last time for 2.53.19 I suppose.
14:12:59 <IanN> Mozilla move to l10n has happened, hence the work mentioned earlier for SeaMonkey l01n
14:13:48 <WG9s> not sure this is the right place inagenda for this but issues with things on our officail archive in nightly that i don;t have privs to alter.
14:14:19 <IanN> WG9s: it's as good as place as any to mention it
14:14:54 <WG9s> so things what worked yesterday does not work today becuase sudently i don;t have rigtts tochange that file anymore.
14:15:56 <WG9s> so that is why Ichanged the lik to where nightly stuff is from the official archive site to my website
14:16:12 <nsITobin> we should map out a plan to depercate and remove 32bit builds as well as bump the windows sdk to a windows 11 version
14:16:23 <WG9s> I acn;s upport this on the official site if i kep geting changes lading that i cant override
14:17:09 <IanN> maybe we need to look at a different option for our archive site
14:17:19 <WG9s> nsITobin: i would probably say i would not want to bump sindows to a win11 ony sdk
14:17:28 <njsg> or understand how to make it work more seamlessly
14:17:49 <nsITobin> sorry i didn't mean to hit enter until you were done with your archive issue
14:17:51 <nsITobin> WG9s:
14:18:07 <njsg> (I expect NT 6.1 to stay around (in userbase) for a long time - but then maybe IA32 isn't much popular with these)
14:18:24 <nsITobin> the win11 sdk shouldn't compramise win7 functionality
14:18:32 <nsITobin> .. but have to keep an eye on it tho
14:19:19 <tomman> plenty of W7 still in service here, but getting more and more eclipsed by 10+ :/
14:19:28 <tomman> (and the odd XP box here and there)
14:19:29 <IanN> need to make sure it doesn't break non Windows 11 / Windows Server 2022
14:19:40 <njsg> so what would be dropped? 6.0 support?
14:19:52 <njsg> or wouldn't make a difference in supported versions of Windows NT?
14:19:53 <nsITobin> does seamonkey support vista now?
14:20:26 <njsg> nsITobin: I only remember the drop of NT5.1 support being a thing, but given how popular Vista was, it's entirely possible that going away never registered in my mind
14:20:31 <WG9s> Did SeaMonkey ever support Vista?
14:20:46 <frg> latest version swupporting vista was 2.49.5
14:21:00 <nsITobin> right cause in 52 moonchild dropped vista for no good reason
14:21:13 <rsx11m> current min requirements read "Windows 7 SP1 with KB4474419 SHA-2 code signing support added"
14:21:22 <frg> as steted in the meeting notes no intention to drop 7 and 8.1 including the server variants.
14:21:44 <frg> 7 is still supported for another 2 months anyway and 8.1 till 2026
14:21:45 <nsITobin> sorry i didn't mean to imply as such i meant only the sdk for better windows 11 compat
14:21:47 <WG9s> but did it really VIsta was the UI it worked under a VIsta build but I am not usre syaing it really supported vista was ever a real thing
14:22:15 <nsITobin> WG9s: an add-on supported Vista as it made the toolbox all dwm glass
14:22:20 <frg> I think we are derailed a bit. Still using 19041 for official builds. 22xxx works too.
14:22:31 <nsITobin> Yeah sorry
14:22:40 * njsg deploys a railing device
14:22:46 <IanN> Status of the SeaMonkey Source Tree
14:22:57 <frg> Vista support is out permanetly. libs no longer support it.
14:23:09 <WG9s> i don't remember SeaMonkey ever having a UI that complied with the Windows Vista crap.
14:23:38 <njsg> yeah, it does tell that I've never seriously used Vista nor do I have any install of it. but to be honest if I did it'd be set to Windows Classic
14:23:53 <tomman> well, the default theme kinda blended somewhat on Aero
14:23:56 <frg> 2.53 and central are building. I am still on my wip tree.
14:24:03 <nsITobin> my patches will be in for .20 right?
14:24:11 <nsITobin> the prefers-*
14:24:15 <njsg> prefers-darkgray and prefers-lightgraytext?
14:24:30 <WG9s> tomman: Oh i forgot that was called Aero.  I kind of just called it Vista
14:24:37 <frg> nsITobin yes. DOMi patch needs a review.. Best if IanN does it. I am a bit swamped.
14:24:38 <njsg> nsITobin: and this was being used by cloudflare, right?
14:25:07 <njsg> I didn't do further Cloudflare testing myself, but IIRC something was said about that?
14:25:14 <nsITobin> njsg: ye .. the critical busting one webwide is prefers-color-scheme but more frameworks are adding depenancies for all of em
14:25:31 <nsITobin> no fallbacks
14:25:41 <njsg> ah prefers-color-scheme, that's it.
14:25:44 <nsITobin> makes my inner webmaster upset
14:25:49 <WG9s> as long as it is not used by CrowdStrike!
14:25:59 <njsg> lack of fallbacks will someday be the name for the development method used by frameworks
14:26:20 <frg> ebay images are now broken than to another stupid update. Works with wip already but still no eta for wip :(
14:26:34 <nsITobin> what is it with ebay images and xul browsers
14:26:42 <nsITobin> this has been a long term saga with them
14:27:25 <IanN> yes, I will review
14:27:37 <nsITobin> i hope it is up to snuff IanN
14:27:49 <tomman> how's going the dynamic imports stuff?
14:28:10 <frg> I didn't spot anything at first glance and it works but needs a second look.
14:28:11 <tomman> pretty much every major JS frame-not-work relies on that junk, and since graceful degradation has been banned worldwide...
14:28:24 <frg> tomman it is in wip and working bigint too.
14:28:44 <tomman> oh, cool~!
14:28:50 <tomman> it's on the nightlies?
14:29:02 <frg> just the rebasis for optional chaining an regexp holding it up. It is more of a redo here so need more stuff first.
14:29:02 <tomman> ah.
14:29:12 <nsITobin> tomman: you should learn the art of patchqueue and build ;)
14:29:14 <frg> ^rebase
14:29:17 <WG9s> find the whole staement graceful degradation has been banned troubling
14:29:20 <IanN> nsITobin: what's the bug ref?
14:29:31 <tomman> ha, I guess I need something to exercise that new Ryzen laptop other than building emulators
14:29:40 <WG9s> shoul i not be able to wite a computer progam that works I s I intend?
14:29:46 <nsITobin> 1912354
14:29:48 <nsITobin> i think
14:29:59 <nsITobin> yeah
14:30:01 <frg> tomman wip will do you no good usually. sites that need dynamic imports usually do optional chaining.
14:30:06 <njsg> tomman: chromium or libreoffice come to mind
14:30:10 <nsITobin> IanN: Bug 1912354
14:30:22 <tomman> Aside of dynamic imports and BigInt, and CF relying on fancy JS junk for Turnstile, no major new offenders to report regarding web compat
14:30:24 <njsg> tomman: to stress the machine compiling, that is
14:31:00 <tomman> although lately Turnstile gets all afraid when I fire devtools and lets me in
14:31:06 <frg> tomman private public fields on it too with wip.
14:31:32 <tomman> ah, had forgotten about those, but thankfully few sites rely on those... yet
14:32:28 <frg> tomman more and more. It starts to s*ck
14:32:38 <frg> off topic for the Vista lovers: https://ibb.co/RYxnNXf
14:32:40 <njsg> I think mastodon 4.3 now required some CSS grid support to render as intended, but, that said, Mastodon is like a party for all these fancy JS features only a few browsers support
14:33:03 <tomman> Sites breaking due to CSS are tougher to diag, since I tend to forget there is another error console
14:33:08 <IanN> Release Train
14:33:20 <tomman> but yeah, Mastodon and CF are CSS serial offenders of the year
14:33:21 <Harzilein> tomman: heh, really? devtools presence makes turnstile hide its toys?
14:33:23 <tomman> and Discourse
14:33:32 <frg> 2.53.19 next. Delay is on me for personal reasons sorry.
14:33:52 <tomman> Harzilein: in my few last instances it failed to render, but after bringing up devtools, it usually renders after I point the inspector
14:34:02 <njsg> Discourse, btw, I intended to double-check, but might be the "revert" keyword for the overflow properties?
14:34:04 <tomman> dunno why, but fear is fear :P
14:34:40 <tomman> Discourse basically is "any web browser not made in the last 3 months is ancient tech that should be burned with fire" (actual Atwood words)
14:35:08 <frg> Have more or less a final 2.53.19 queue. Just need to formalize it.
14:35:44 <frg> I think build env is a bit flaky with the python changes but have only seen one bug.
14:35:50 <njsg> Re: discourse, Jeff Atwood didn't care much beyond linking something I didn't read yet, but: https://www.jwz.org/blog/2024/06/modern-web-technologies/#comment-250757
14:36:05 <frg> Bug 1909061
14:36:09 <njsg> (the revert thing is at least for when scripts are disabled)
14:36:19 <WG9s> tomman: i am from beantown so I say fear stands out
14:36:21 <frg> njsg we know. Best to discuss after the meeting.
14:36:24 <njsg> (with scripts enabled I've read it doesn't work well)
14:36:30 <WG9s> fear strikes out i meant
14:37:59 <WG9s> The Jimmy Pearsal stry!
14:38:22 <nsITobin> where are we? gen rel issues?
14:38:53 <frg> nsITobin yes
14:39:34 <IanN> frg: is bug 1909061 due to building in sub directory of source folder?
14:40:34 <frg> IanN I am not sure but might be. FOUND_MOZCONFIG=/home/uhlar/src/mozilla/seamonkey-2.53.19b1/.mozconfig
14:41:04 <frg> I am getting a failed python 2 env error under Windows when recompiling. Harmless.
14:41:09 <WG9s> I build in a directory one leve above where the mozilla top levelis.  so my objdir is under the level above the topsrcdir to avoid anh such issue
14:41:45 <nsITobin> I got that too at some point.. of course the mozbuild is slightly compramised because taskcluster's removal and even if it was there it wouldn't match anything on taskcluster's servers anyway..
14:42:05 <nsITobin> need to better factor that junk out
14:42:17 <WG9s> so lide for 2.53 i have a comm-253 folder and my objdirs are built there and then i have  a mozilla and mozilla/comm for wher the source is.
14:43:21 <IanN> Extensions Tracking
14:43:38 <frg> bau
14:43:50 <tomman> let me check my fleet: no new hacks needed recently
14:44:15 <tomman> haven't bothered finding out a fix Redirector's embedded JQuery breakages
14:44:31 <IanN> 2.Next, Feature List, Planning and Roundtable
14:44:52 <tomman> (extension still works fine, but the config dialog is a page that uses jQuery and broke because of some... security restrictions?)
14:44:55 <IanN> bau for me
14:45:32 <frg> addec security in the sanitizer might have broken stuff but no time to investigate:
14:45:34 <frg> http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=3123510
14:46:09 <frg> http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=3123833
14:46:15 <tomman> > Removing unsafe node. Element: input.
14:46:20 <tomman> frg: yep, that one
14:48:47 <nsITobin> my stuff is broadcasted all day every day so that sums my status up.. Also learned that the logbot hates running out of disk space
14:51:00 <IanN> AOB
14:51:27 <frg> bau
14:51:38 <njsg> bau
14:51:38 <nsITobin> I want to effectively reverse 686278 and have --disable-mailnews
14:51:41 <nsITobin> :P
14:53:07 <frg> nsITobin as long as you don't expect it to be in the official releases... :)
14:53:13 <nsITobin> but i do!
14:53:14 <nsITobin> lol
14:53:21 <nsITobin> well not enabled
14:54:42 <IanN> I'm calling that a meeting. Next meeting is in 3 weeks time, same bat channel, same bat time. Thanks for your time today.
14:55:10 <frg> thanks and cu here and there
14:55:16 <nsITobin> not official releases but official sources that is what I meant to say.. Also
14:55:28 <nsITobin> can we put a take on the website for the next status meeting
14:55:33 <nsITobin> somewhere
14:55:45 <njsg> next on September 8th?
14:56:00 <frg> nsITobin well same. This would go very very deep. Not a fan.
14:56:38 <tonymec> nsITobin: Edit→Preferences→Appearance→When browser starts up→ untick [ ] Mail & Newsgroups
14:56:42 <rsx11m> njsg: says my calendar...
14:57:45 <njsg> yeah, I just like to check, just in case my brain is disagreeing with reality on that
14:58:33 <rsx11m> we should stick with 3 weeks unless decided otherwise
14:59:35 <nsITobin> seems to work, tho nothing would please me more than justifing weekly again
15:00:44 <rsx11m> ok, have to go now
15:00:50 <nsITobin> rsx11m: have fun!
15:00:51 <IanN> nsITobin: we could always have a separate discussions about the website
15:00:53 <IanN> c u rsx11m
15:05:05 <njsg> cya
15:09:19 <nsITobin> IanN: there is just so much to do and that isn't a complaint far from it.. it is just taking me awhile to adjust a LOT of dev habits and expectations and settle into a working structure that can allow me to regain the level of contribution and accomplishment I had.. I am much closer now thanks to frg's help understanding hg mq enabling me to build arbitrarily.
15:09:43 <nsITobin> and WG9s too
15:31:22 <nsITobin> IanN: could be worse.. i could still be on about the splash screen lol
15:32:16 <SilverSurfer> Heya
15:32:26 <nsITobin> Greetings
15:33:33 <SilverSurfer> I tried to manually install SeaMonkey on the latest version of Ubuntu, quit bc it was like 11 PM, tried to download Ubuntuzilla, and then realized it wasn't working bc they changed how sources are formatted. Fun start to the week
15:34:56 <nsITobin> sounds like it
15:35:35 <SilverSurfer> I'm willing to give manual install another try, provided that SeaMonkey works with 24.0.4, but I legit just installed Linux for the first time like half a week ago
15:36:03 <nsITobin> you'll need python 3.11 or older
15:36:47 <SilverSurfer> Noted. I will see how to downgrade to said version rq
15:37:05 <nsITobin> and the python 3.11 version of six
15:37:12 <nsITobin> .. but only sometimes?
15:38:09 <nsITobin> linux building has a few advantages over windows building in that configure telling you what is missing is a lot more useful
15:38:37 <nsITobin> rustup to what 1.64?
15:38:57 <nsITobin> and satisfy configure
15:39:08 <nsITobin> and you SHOULD be able to build from just source
15:40:09 <nsITobin> least that could get you by until ubuntu finishes ubuntuing everything
15:41:17 <SilverSurfer> It wasn't that I encountered an error proper. I think it was just a matter of not being able to find the right folders to put things in
15:43:07 <nsITobin> I haven't researched what all ubuntu does to mozilla packages so I am not up on the specifics
15:45:12 <nsITobin> frg_Away: why is the icon for "graft" a carrot?
15:45:25 <nsITobin> in hg workbench
15:45:38 <SilverSurfer> With this round of browser shopping, I'm really just looking for something I can install without jumping through several hoops and can customize to match my XP-style theme. Easier said than done, I'm afraid. Firefox-CSS isn't compatible with snap versions of Firefox
15:45:43 <nsITobin> I don't think it is supposed to be a carrot but it sure looks a lot like a carrot
15:45:49 <SilverSurfer> Will ask around in Firefox chat to that end
15:46:20 <nsITobin> SilverSurfer: good luck
15:46:40 <SilverSurfer> Ty!
15:47:56 <frg_Away> nsITobin before my time. Don't know.
15:48:10 <nsITobin> but it DOES look like a carrot
15:48:15 <nsITobin> i am not imagining it
15:48:48 <nsITobin> or maybe I just want some carrot cake
15:50:17 <SilverSurfer> Grafting is a thing in botany. Maybe a reference to that?
15:51:01 <nsITobin> entirely possible
15:53:17 <nsITobin> just realized if I want to file bugs for restoring the original home button icon when it is on the personal toolbar and my https security ux enhancement I need to actually accomidate lightweight themes
15:53:30 <nsITobin> (modern skin home button)
16:36:58 <tomman> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41269321 Hackernews has Opinions over some rando JS framenotwork
16:37:08 <tomman> the framenotwork is this: https://vanillajsx.com/
16:37:14 <tomman> and that page triggers two errors here:
16:37:19 <tomman> SyntaxError: import declarations may only appear at top level of a module
16:37:29 <tomman> SyntaxError: await is a reserved identifier
16:37:52 <tomman> first one is this syntax: import(`./samples/${sample.dataset['sample']}.js`)
16:38:01 <tomman> dunno what the hell is that, another variant of dynamic imports?
16:38:16 <tomman> second one happens at this: const highlighter = await createHighlighter({
16:39:21 <tomman> > Use at module top level: FF89
17:09:02 * njsg looks "JSX" up
17:09:14 <njsg> well
17:09:49 <njsg> I wonder if "JSX, short for JSONx" could be the new "Java, short for JavaScript" :-P
17:17:43 <nsITobin> JSX is a syntax extension for JavaScript that lets you write HTML-like markup inside a JavaScript file. Although there are other ways to write components, most React developers prefer the conciseness of JSX, and most codebases use it.
17:17:54 <nsITobin> ...
17:17:59 <nsITobin> ...........
17:18:13 <nsITobin> bastardized inverted php anyone?
17:18:32 <njsg> maybe it's to PHP like unicode quotes are to MS dumb quotes
17:18:47 <njsg> regarding discourse, does scrolling also fail when javascript is enabled?
17:19:16 <nsITobin> Excuse me.
17:23:59 <njsg> ... was it something I said?
17:24:03 <nsITobin> no
17:24:05 <nsITobin> it was react
17:24:08 <nsITobin> ion
17:24:19 <nsITobin> everything is fine
17:24:32 <nsITobin> the CONCEPT of merged html and javascript is insane
17:25:27 <nsITobin> njsg: https://react.dev/_next/image?url=%2Fimages%2Fdocs%2Fdiagrams%2Fwriting_jsx_sidebar.png&w=384&q=75
17:25:29 <nsITobin> that
17:25:34 <nsITobin> is wrong
17:27:14 <nsITobin> it violates everything and i fear this could be what happens next
17:27:55 <njsg> shortened: https://react.dev/images/docs/diagrams/writing_jsx_sidebar.png
17:27:57 <nsITobin> why? because customElements are clunky as hell to construct and design
17:28:52 <njsg> to be fair, my reaction is "uh, they're doing quasiquotation?"
17:29:30 <njsg> looks almost like that
17:29:42 <njsg> I don't know much about this JSX to be able to comment on it
17:29:53 <nsITobin> using javascript as smarty more or less
17:30:08 <nsITobin> but at that point doesn't XBL make more sense ;)
17:33:20 <nsITobin> Putting JSX markup close to related rendering logic makes React components easy to create, maintain, and delete.
17:33:38 <nsITobin> exactly it violates seperation of presentation and business logic
17:34:58 <nsITobin> facebook
17:35:00 <nsITobin> figures
17:35:23 <nsITobin> hard to keep whom is responsible for what .. but this is facebook's doing
17:39:31 <njsg> I'm curious, partly because Javascript was already quite lispy in a way...
17:58:37 <nsITobin> njsg: i mean javascript as an event driven little scriptlets was great it did a lot for the web
17:59:34 <nsITobin> what bothers me most is jsx is like yeah html is just part of javascript
18:01:23 <nsITobin> hello hardys
18:01:27 <nsITobin> how goes it
18:02:04 <hardys> Just have to check my new profile
18:03:07 <hardys> my old profile was corrupted
18:03:39 <nsITobin> do you know which parts if you are careful about it you can mangle a frankenprofile that is sound.. enough
18:35:55 <nsITobin> njsg: https://i.ibb.co/W5hzrwH/image.png
18:37:39 <njsg> nsITobin: a m&n-less build?
18:37:54 <nsITobin> just like the old old days
18:37:55 <nsITobin> lol
18:38:49 <nsITobin> done properly not a rip out or a 2010 uhh what does this do lol not complete yet but one day
18:39:46 <nsITobin> doesn't mean I ain't testing mailnews by any means
18:41:34 <nsITobin> just the version I am switching to as my main webagator doesn't need it.. this mq patchqueue flexability allows me to push and pop my mods on and off as needed only them that touch configdeps like moz.configure are in any way irksome cause needs a clobber
18:42:19 <nsITobin> and I can test everything
18:49:41 <nsITobin> looking again at classic .. two issues are most glairing and they are the navibuttons the hovershine is way too harsh and the reload button blue is not saturated enough.. I think it should be more around the seamonkey .. seamonkey light blue
18:50:22 <nsITobin> the drawing not the text
19:53:51 <nsITobin> yay i have a history menu again!
20:23:36 <andr01d> So, is it true that: seamonkey since 2.53.15 deprecates SSLv3 ?
20:24:07 <nsITobin> it isn't much of a choice
20:24:10 <nsITobin> its nss imposed
20:24:12 <andr01d> Is there some way to include that protocol? I need to talk to some old equipment...
20:24:28 <nsITobin> it would be work to do otherwise and for what a few surviving routers?
20:24:52 <andr01d> that's fine, as long as you don't have a piece of equipment that can't be upgraded 8-/
20:24:58 <nsITobin> you could nginx and proxy ;)
20:25:40 <andr01d> I've come to despise https
20:25:45 <nsITobin> andr01d: sorry i did sound more harsh than intended..
20:26:13 <nsITobin> https has a place
20:26:21 <nsITobin> just not everywhere
20:26:23 <nsITobin> like AI
20:26:30 <andr01d> not your fault nsITobin, it's just that complete elimination of protocol support is a massive overkill
20:26:55 <nsITobin> well there is a thin line between just giving you the blunt answer and coming off like Moonchild lol
20:28:09 <andr01d> A warning like all the other "are you sure you want to do this?" would suffice
20:28:37 <nsITobin> one would think.. buuuuut
20:28:38 <nsITobin> lol
20:28:45 <andr01d> but complete elimination of a protocol version support kills access to equipment that's not even across the internet, just across the lab
20:28:57 <nsITobin> and that's the point
20:29:14 <nsITobin> not SM's point but Mozilla's and the rest of the industry
20:29:26 <nsITobin> nss maintaince against the grain gets messy quick, trust me i know
20:29:33 <andr01d> given that mozilla is basically a goggle proxy at this point
20:29:46 <nsITobin> Mozilla was just a google proxy
20:29:53 <nsITobin> NOW they think they are rebels and freedom fighters again
20:30:02 <nsITobin> ...
20:30:43 <nsITobin> "saving the internet from big tech"
20:30:52 <nsITobin> ... who sold it to them after IE was largely killed?
20:30:56 <andr01d> Now I'm stuck, unable to upgrade for loss of protocol, and unable to access other websites that require new goggle shiny objects
20:31:35 <nsITobin> andr01d: use an older version and modify it to disable the updater THEN use --no-remote and --profile to specify a directory .. a kind of pseudo-portable mode
20:32:13 <andr01d> So keep the older and newer versions?
20:32:27 <nsITobin> well you can reloate the older version elsewhere
20:32:33 <nsITobin> like a copy
20:32:43 <nsITobin> and make a copy of your profile
20:32:50 <andr01d> yes, I can do that
20:33:08 <andr01d> I actually already copied the profil, which is 9GB now!
20:33:46 <nsITobin> then with the OTHER older copy edit pref/channel-prefs.js to disable the updater.. and then launch it from commandline using --no-remote and specifing a direct profile directory to your copy profile.. it will run in a pseudo-portable mode .. also disable default client checks
20:34:51 <andr01d> I think I'm already not updating. In archlinux I'm pretty sure application self-updating is disabled by default. Only distro package updates
20:34:52 <nsITobin> if you are on windows I can send you an old ass vb.net stub that will do it
20:35:01 <nsITobin> oh ok
20:35:54 <nsITobin>  /path/to/oldmonkey/seamonkey-bin --no-remote --profile /path/to/oldmonkey/profile
20:36:19 <andr01d> I wonder about library dependencies if I update the whole system though
20:36:28 <nsITobin> oh right this is a distro bit
20:36:30 <nsITobin> damn
20:36:35 <nsITobin> distros split it up
20:36:42 <nsITobin> bin and lib
20:36:50 <andr01d> too bad there's not a seamonkey w/ static compilation\
20:37:05 <andr01d> I guess it could be built as such, but sounds like a project
20:38:47 <andr01d> Looks like I'll keep the old seamonkey, and move to ff for the websites that just won't work anymore 8-(
20:38:59 <andr01d> This is more and more of the sites I keep a tab for
20:39:05 <nsITobin> the simplest solution since you are on linux would be nginx reverseproxy
20:39:09 <andr01d> (I have ~200 seamonkey tabs)
20:39:32 <nsITobin> which is deadsimple to setup
20:39:55 <nsITobin> consider it a security upgrade to your router to make it resistant to modern browsers
20:39:59 <nsITobin> ;)
20:40:05 <nsITobin> andr01d
20:40:21 <andr01d> It almost becomes a security feature to use an old depricated SSL, then no one can access the site 8-)
20:40:47 <andr01d> all access to that old equipment is limited to internal IPs anyway
20:41:05 <nsITobin> swapping out nss TYPICALLY isn't painful but gotta watchout for late model changes elsewhere
20:41:17 <andr01d> the restriction in the browser is only serving to fuck me
20:41:28 <nsITobin> i feel you
20:41:40 <nsITobin> nss i think is C code
20:41:43 <nsITobin> so lrnC
20:41:44 <nsITobin> lol
20:42:02 <nsITobin> I am learning C.. just exceptionally slow
20:42:13 <andr01d> I'm pretty fluent in C, a rebuilt nss could be the way
20:42:34 <nsITobin> might be able to patch your system nss for it
20:42:43 <nsITobin> if you like system nss that is
20:42:45 <nsITobin> I don't
20:43:06 <nsITobin> or swap it out and use in-tree
20:43:27 <nsITobin> kinda takes "fucked" to mildly inconvenenced doesn't it
20:43:35 <nsITobin> least that is how I wanna look at it
20:44:49 <andr01d> Yes, it seems thee is a link to the nss in the profile, according to :
20:44:50 <andr01d> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Network_Security_Services
20:45:26 <andr01d> wiki says it supports SSLv2 and SSL v3, but somehow seamonkey, or the specific nss build don't allow?
20:45:48 <nsITobin> check about:buildconfig
20:45:56 <nsITobin> see if it is using system nss or its own
20:46:01 <nsITobin> likely its own because reasons
20:46:31 <nsITobin> might be as simple as rebuilding --with-system-nss and --with-system-nspr
20:46:42 <nsITobin> but no clue the state of it..
20:46:49 <nsITobin> in your os combo
20:47:42 <andr01d> --with-system-nss
20:48:15 <andr01d> --with-system-nspr
20:48:21 <andr01d> Seems like it's a system nss config
20:48:24 <nsITobin> then it must be a block elsewhere
20:49:12 <andr01d> I'm almost afraid to ask in #archlinux for fear of a security circus avalanche 8-/
20:49:48 <andr01d> They are the systemd and "update every other day" fan bois
20:50:00 <nsITobin> wait
20:50:09 <nsITobin> did you try pref
20:50:21 <andr01d> how can I set in pref?
20:51:31 <andr01d> In SSL/TLS the choices only include various TLS versions, no SSLv2 or v3 available
20:52:36 <nsITobin> security.tls.version.min
20:52:38 <nsITobin> to 0
20:52:40 <nsITobin> try that
20:55:40 <andr01d> Well, I'm still in 2.53.14, so I have SSLv3 support. I guess I have to try on a newer version
20:56:11 <andr01d> which requires system update, which is basically irreversible 8-/
20:58:33 <nsITobin> nope
20:58:37 <nsITobin> its completely gone
20:58:45 <nsITobin> 0 disables 1.1 and 1.0
20:59:11 <nsITobin> https://browserleaks.com/tls
21:05:29 <andr01d> on .14 I'm showing tls 1.0 and 1.1 enabled (weak) on that website, which is as expected (and why I haven't updated seamonkey)
21:06:07 <andr01d> I think your suggestion of the reverseproxy is the easiest way to support a newer seamonkey here...
21:15:58 <nsITobin> i mean the change is in here but the queue is massive still finding it will require more work or someone else like frg to point it out
21:17:06 <nsITobin> need to fork nginx
21:17:10 <nsITobin> add 418 in
21:19:44 <nsITobin> wasn't there a bookmarks menu toolbar button in SeaMonkey?
21:19:58 <nsITobin> oh its there
21:19:59 <nsITobin> lol
21:44:10 <njsg> yes, in the bookmarks toolbar (by default, I guess)
21:45:11 <njsg> 418, had to check. reminded me of "413 is in" :-)
21:45:57 <njsg> (one of the contenders for the first sentence uttered on the lunar surface, along with "engine arm off")
21:46:32 <nsITobin> well the 418 i was refering to makes sure that you don't send brewing instructions to a teapot
21:47:05 * njsg makes herbal tea out of coffee grounds
21:47:23 <nsITobin> I am not sure that request body is short and/or stout
21:47:24 <nsITobin> ..
21:47:44 <njsg> it's caffeinated and tasty!
21:48:49 <nsITobin> perhaps but you are clearly violating the HTCPCP/1.0 specification
21:48:55 <nsITobin> njsg:
21:49:17 <nsITobin> hardys apperently doesn't approve lol
21:50:13 <nsITobin> either that or my aherance to it