00:07:21 <Sompi> Google even made their own fork of the Rust compiler and Chromium does not compile without it. The Google version of Rust is not compatible with the "actual" Rust, so I don't understand how it does not violate the license of Rust...
00:08:14 <Sompi> The Google version of Rust compiler is even worse than the official one. It basically only supports 64-bit x86 target and I think some ARM sets are also supported
02:55:26 <nsITobin> Sompi: that implies Mozilla's rust gamble has failed google will just comsume any relevant rust code and make it specific to chromium
02:56:55 <nsITobin> good night
13:30:15 <WG9s> HI all - here for the meeting
13:38:19 <nsITobin> hi WG9s
13:38:24 <IanN> status meeting in 22 minutes - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2024-09-08
13:50:08 <IanN> status meeting in 10 minutes - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2024-09-08
13:58:05 <tomman> for once, I'm early
13:58:15 <njsg> hello .*
13:58:19 <nsITobin> I actually remembered to update my preserved section ;)
13:58:34 <frg> hi all
13:58:40 <nsITobin> greetings the frg
13:58:58 <frg> who is tired
13:59:10 <tomman> everybody~!
14:00:17 <WG9s> hi all again after it is meeting time
14:00:23 <nsITobin> yeah sundays are for napping but i hear there is a status meeting
14:00:34 <IanN> status meeting time - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2024-09-08
14:01:04 <njsg> I did some napping between dinner and breakfast, but might be in for some more after the meeting
14:02:08 <frg> I do the notes
14:02:38 <IanN> Who's taking minutes?
14:02:40 <IanN> thanks
14:02:43 <frg> me
14:02:46 <WG9s> frg: wow no one even had to ask!
14:02:53 <IanN> Nominees for Friends of the Fish Tank
14:03:02 <nsITobin> do we get any of these minutes back at any point?
14:03:15 <frg> If someone else wants to do do it be my guest :)
14:03:26 <IanN> minutes are gone forever
14:03:46 <frg> until the next restart of the universe
14:03:50 <nsITobin> k
14:04:03 <frg> 12:01
14:04:30 <WG9s> just my $.02 but I keep saying we should make up a different channel for meetings so that the logbot can domeeting for us
14:05:07 <WG9s> also can do the meeting without interuupting new users looking for support ending up in the midst of a meeting
14:05:23 <IanN> Nominees for Friends of the Fish Tank?
14:05:48 <frg> none from me this time. Hope anyone else has one
14:06:31 <WG9s> I think should be a SeaMonkey-mtg channel that is used for meetings and in the SeaMonkey topic it should say next meeting at @SeaMonkey-mtg at <time and date>
14:06:45 <WG9s> this woeked for me when I worked on MathMl
14:07:04 <frg> It would just be another adminstrative task I have no stomach for even if small.
14:07:36 <IanN> Action Items
14:08:03 <frg> bau
14:10:02 <IanN> Status of the SeaMonkey Infrastructure
14:10:22 <WG9s> frg: well please learn how to delegate!
14:11:12 <WG9s> does not need to be on you!
14:11:14 <tomman> Amazon has a sale of whips now~
14:11:45 <frg> bau too. I think we cna decommision the CentOS 7 builder next but should probbaly do a test build on Rocky 8 next and test it a bit.
14:12:00 <frg> WG9s I know but it is usually you me or IanN
14:12:24 <frg> And with so small an audience I don't think it is worth it.
14:12:47 <IanN> frg: yeah, should be easy to sort
14:15:54 <WG9s> tomman: ;-)
14:16:51 <IanN> Status of the SeaMonkey Source Tree
14:16:53 <nsITobin> I will try and setup a repo mirror of rocky 8 sources in case rpms start falling off the grid
14:17:36 <frg> Don't think so. Worst case Alma or Oracle Linux (shudder).
14:17:47 <nsITobin> maybe make a kickstart specifically for an sm build env
14:18:12 <tomman> friends don't let friends use Oracle anything~
14:18:15 <nsITobin> awe man that unbreakable kernel!
14:18:27 <frg> Still on the Windows 2012 R2 builder. Asked ewong again about some files for the 2019 one.
14:18:50 <frg> Still patches with free esu patches so not urgent.
14:18:57 <frg> ^patched
14:19:15 <WG9s> hmm my friend has a bumper sticker that says friends don't let friends drink Starbucks!
14:20:19 <frg> nsITobin WG9s comm central has some new patches. Does it show an ui yet?
14:20:39 <nsITobin> not for WG9s yet
14:21:18 <njsg> how is it supposed to work, starts UI automatically, needs startup address or parameters?
14:21:40 <nsITobin> the real issue is my methodology was make a UI and fill in the gaps then go forward
14:21:53 <frg> I plan to set the 2.53 compatibility version to 128 from 91. Anyone against it? Running a build now and iother than the clownflare assholes no issues.
14:21:58 <WG9s> The UI he wupplied that confused me ws uing is new diagnostic buoy which I am still awating user documentaion on.
14:22:12 <nsITobin> so I fixed instead of followed the bugs and now i have to clean that up but the patches WG9s has in are progress towards that
14:22:57 <frg> Persoanlly I would concentrate on 2.53. Still ltos of issues to resolve even in suite code.
14:23:29 <WG9s> I am remiss in not suppling feedback on the 4 remining of Tobin's patches that i have not landed anything on central gitlab for
14:24:04 <nsITobin> Well I think I will do a simpler to add rigging up and coordinate with IanN on that devtools patch and then follow bugs my buoy thing was just an isolated entrypoint that isn't required its just nice to have
14:24:36 <nsITobin> but yeah central has to take a backseat to 253
14:24:54 <frg> If we want to do central I think 5 more people/devs need to show up :)
14:25:20 <nsITobin> I just resist going quietly ;) patches to the last!
14:26:08 <frg> yeah it should build and be used at a last resort if everything else goes to hell.
14:26:38 <nsITobin> We hook up rust fully and mozilla is in a heap of trouble..
14:26:51 <nsITobin> its the one thing UXP can never do.
14:27:39 <frg> Use rust in suite directly and I retire.
14:27:54 <nsITobin> well stylo i mean
14:28:18 <frg> anyway nothing else for source from me. Still on wip and making progress but last week was reshuffle week.
14:31:27 <IanN> Release Train
14:32:41 <frg> 2.53.19 is out. Seems the 0.0.0.0 patch is incomplete per one newsgroup post.
14:33:51 <WG9s> issue is poeple d not get the idea of 0/0/0/0 sjupd be permitted as a source ip but not accpeted as a deitintaion.
14:33:51 <nsITobin> is there a test case
14:33:59 <frg> So, if network.dns.blockQuad0 is true the IP addresses "0.0.0.0", "::"
14:34:00 <frg> and "::0.0.0.0" are blocked. Unfortunately, this list is not complete.
14:34:02 <frg> It is missing the IP address "::ffff:0.0.0.0" (IPv4-mapped IPv6
14:34:03 <frg> address). Just checked it on my Linux box and it's not blocked.
14:34:17 <frg> Note that "::ffff:0.0.0.0" is equivalent to "::ffff:0:0". Not sure which
14:34:19 <frg> one would be the appropriate representation in this case.
14:34:24 <nsITobin> so its gonna be a whole blacklist?
14:34:35 <frg> Nothing for a .1 I think
14:35:09 <frg> nsITobin if you can test on Linux we can fix up the patch for 2.53.20.
14:36:03 <IanN> Just the equivalent of 0.0.0.0
14:36:06 <nsITobin> Yeah I'll get that possible again
14:36:10 <WG9s> the shole idea of 0.0.0.0 is a source ip that can be used to say use the normal to figure out how to get to the destination using the default IP routing table.
14:36:29 <frg> TOP-NOBUG-blockquad0-25319.patch
14:36:33 <WG9s> it was never itnended to be a valid distination IP address.
14:36:47 <nsITobin> I didn't think it was
14:37:05 <frg> yes. Mozilla didn't patch it becuase CORS should take care of it. Should....
14:37:45 <frg> Personally I blame the *nix implementation :)
14:37:54 <IanN> Extensions Tracking
14:38:00 <frg> bau
14:39:29 <IanN> 2.Next, Feature List, Planning and Roundtable
14:40:19 <frg> bau still some slow go because of personal issues.
14:40:23 <tomman> the whole 0.0.0.0 issue is funny
14:40:36 <tomman> except that these days even silly stuff can be weaponized
14:40:42 <nsITobin> Bug 476108 has a UXP impl
14:41:00 <frg> tomman not if you are taken over :(
14:41:12 <WG9s> but 0.0.0.o0 should just never be allowed as a destination IP address should be a rule
14:41:20 <nsITobin> I think
14:41:31 <njsg> funny, I just hit an issue owing to CORS-related frame issues. but this is because a server is probably misconfigured...
14:41:37 <IanN> bau too here
14:42:00 <WG9s> no problam if we protect against is, bt if the OS aoolws it then may odd things could happen
14:42:03 <nsITobin> Well what extensions are considered core to SeaMonkey users aside from adblockers
14:42:15 <WG9s> hAVING NOTHING TO USE WITH THE BROWSER
14:42:23 <WG9s> oops hit caps lock
14:42:29 <nsITobin> That would be where to start renewed extensions tracking
14:42:43 <frg> NoScript uBlock for me Import Export tools to a point and not trying to break enigmail
14:43:11 <frg> And the unnamed still maintained.
14:43:23 <WG9s> frg: but for enigmail could go the TB route on that front!
14:43:41 <WG9s> supporting openpgp
14:43:42 <njsg> of what I have here probably OverbiteFF and User Agent Switcher might be considered such by some users, if the latter isn't, then maybe some equivalent
14:44:03 <njsg> personally I'd consider Mnenhy too, although that probably needs to be checked for compatibility
14:44:04 <frg> WG9s yeah every second patch seems to be about it and used by 0.01% of its users. I rather keep enigmail for now :)
14:44:12 <nsITobin> I will be working on a UI for SSUAOs rendering UAS irrelevant
14:44:24 <frg> njsg broken and it does not seem the owner is interested in fixing it up.
14:44:30 <njsg> nsITobin: will it also allow to set the non-per-site override?
14:44:45 <WG9s> i don;t know what OverbiteFF deos but I think we need a new user agent switcher anyway
14:45:17 <njsg> frg: which one? (I think all three have issues of some sort out of the box)
14:45:31 <njsg> WG9s: OverbiteFF does the Gopher protocol
14:45:37 <frg> nsITobin buc had/has some patches but the break the current ui prefs by omitting SeaMonkey last I looked. I want to keep this just to annoy the web world :)
14:45:51 <IanN> nsITobin: Extensions Tracking section might be a good starting point
14:46:36 <frg> Personally I till want ftp support but Gopher si somethiong from the last century. Sorry gopher supporters :)
14:46:51 <IanN> frg: I like my gophers
14:46:53 <nsITobin> gopher supporters can learn mq
14:46:56 <nsITobin> ;)
14:47:07 <frg> Would rather fix up Composer for sftp and other things than invest time in gopher.
14:47:31 <WG9s> So OverbiteFF is for Gopher?  I will it till he gets elected to Congress!
14:47:35 <IanN> nsITobin: question on xr, does it exclude test files?
14:47:39 <nsITobin> yes
14:47:42 <nsITobin> but
14:47:50 <nsITobin> i could set up an alt instance with that removed
14:48:04 <nsITobin> it just cut indexing time from over an hour and  ahalf to 15 min on average
14:48:43 <tomman> Extensions? Thanks for reminding me that I need to figure out a way to get the embedded jQuery working again on Redirector so I can actually configure it again...
14:48:50 <frg> Reminds me that I need to do a 57a1 patch for accesible. Omitted it initially and it did bite my lately. Adding it now will be bahhh...
14:48:53 <tomman> been putting that on the backburner for so long
14:49:22 <WG9s> nsITobin: Oh but knor knowing that explains my sissued trying to use it.  My builds have tests enabled. and I have not beenable to figure out many issues using yout xr
14:49:45 <nsITobin> Well I can look for a way to see if I can do it by repo name
14:50:02 <nsITobin> I'll figure something out so the sm tree can have tests index but not every other one
14:50:23 <frg> too much cpu?
14:50:41 <WG9s> nsITobin: well, as frg says,  I am the only one who cares!
14:50:53 <nsITobin> nah its single threaded and only will peg one core just time to index and reindex
14:51:25 <frg> WG9s well I care now an then but I think broken in 2.53 right now because of python issues.
14:51:28 <nsITobin> no its cool i didn't even think about it
14:51:51 <frg> Needs a Firefox or TB build.
14:52:14 <nsITobin> in UXP and before we kinda just started deleting test suites cause we had a choice to maintain the tests or maintain the code..
14:52:47 <WG9s> nsITobin: I am the only one actually trying to build comm-central and I have tests enabled so having a cross reference with tests diesabled does not help me.  Of course if frg and IanN agree I can just diisable tests for my builds.
14:53:48 <WG9s> Oh wait this is for 2.53 not so much an issue there if a new central xr would need to have tests enabled.
14:54:14 <IanN> AOB
14:54:14 <frg> We need them for 2.53. I only disable them because takes double the time. Not sure if we need them for central.
14:54:40 <nsITobin> I'll enable test indexing on central and 253 it isn't a big deal
14:54:59 <frg> bau
14:55:00 <WG9s> anyeay all the 2.53 builds worked and are now archived
14:55:04 <nsITobin> just sacrafice to the perl gods some offering it will be fine
14:55:33 <nsITobin> awesome
14:55:38 <IanN> so next meeting is in 3 weeks time on 29th September
14:55:49 <IanN> thanks for your time today
14:56:08 <frg> cu here in between
14:57:39 <nsITobin> So I will get linux building going again to test the linux side of the zero patch and then I am gonna focus the rest of the week on server operations and php development
14:57:51 <nsITobin> or anything anyone needs me for
14:59:53 <WG9s> IanN: thanks
15:06:16 <tomman> https://purplesyringa.moe/blog/webp-the-webpage-compression-format/ so, we now need to implement this crap too?
15:07:13 <tomman> wait, that site is broken!
15:07:26 <tomman> only the beginning of the site renders, the rest is several kilometers of blank space
15:07:52 <frg_Away> webp support is mostly in
15:08:00 <tomman> > SyntaxError: await is a reserved identifier
15:08:18 <tomman> that guy is using webp as a format to compress HTML, then render it on a canvas or something
15:08:28 <tomman> it's claiming huge bandwidth savings
15:08:31 <tomman> it's also a horrible idea
15:13:44 <tomman> > A nojs version is compiled separately and is linked via a meta refresh. Not ideal, and I could add some safeguards for people without webgl, but I'm not an idiot.
15:15:12 <nsITobin> IanN_Away WG9s any other issues with the cross-reference you have noticed?
15:15:27 <IanN_Away> nsITobin: don't think so
15:15:41 <WG9s> No!
15:15:43 <IanN_Away> nsITobin: oh yes, one more thing
15:16:03 <IanN_Away> nsITobin: doesn't seem to list the results in alphabetical order
15:16:18 <nsITobin> yeah I have never figured out why it seems to list it in REVERSE order
15:16:23 <nsITobin> been that way since 2016
15:16:31 <WG9s> Hmm was that a Columbo reference?
15:16:54 <IanN_Away> nsITobin: so I searched for getCoordsForCellItem
15:17:04 <WG9s> "One More THing"
15:18:00 <IanN_Away> nsITobin: has /accessible/, browser/, /dom/, /toolkit/, /layout/, /comm/suite/ and /comm/mail/
15:18:28 <njsg> 0908|16:08:54 <+tomman> it's claiming huge bandwidth savings <-- that person is aware that HTTP can do compression, right?
15:18:36 <IanN_Away> nsITobin: not sure why toolkit appears before layout
15:19:58 <tomman> njsg: yeah, but not strongly because even Brotli is not hip enough
15:32:18 <nsITobin> IanN_Away: was this free-text search or identifier search
15:33:08 <nsITobin> yeah I see it..
15:33:14 <nsITobin> this is provided by glimpse
15:44:27 <nsITobin> IanN_Away: this just seems to be how the results from glimpse are output.. if this used to be sorted in a particular way I can't determine that from the code
15:44:30 <nsITobin> https://dpaste.org/8JKea/raw
15:48:30 <nsITobin> Doesn't mean it can't be changed or improved.. I just need to formally restart the cross-reference project
16:08:23 <nsITobin> wish there were better options for hg hosting
16:08:32 <nsITobin> ... bitbucket had one job
16:35:58 <IanN_Away> nsITobin: https://foss.heptapod.net/
16:36:45 <nsITobin> IanN_Away: do you think *I* could get hosting on there.. I dunno if I am foss enough
16:45:43 <WG9s> nsITobin: just remember heptapod is not realy Mercurial.  It is an hg front end with a git back end.
16:48:40 <nsITobin> well I just dunno how complex it would be to setup a multi-repo hgweb instance and how heavy it would be .. it is backed with git?
16:54:16 <nsITobin> well I did use git-cinnabar to import this to git so I could start the m3xr project https://code.binaryoutcast.com/laboratories/m3-cross-reference/src/TRUNK as my original repo was lost in 2022
16:55:09 <nsITobin> damn i been working on this thing off and on for 8 years
21:49:57 <njsg> this gonna go well https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/share-your-feedback-on-the-ai-services-experiment-in-nightly/m-p/60519
21:51:11 <tomman> I thought MZLA was an advertising corporation
21:51:20 <tomman> now they pivoted from adtech into AI?
21:51:28 <nsITobin> I knew this was coming
21:51:29 <tomman> so... when it's MZLA's IPO?
21:51:32 <nsITobin> for 6 months
21:51:58 <njsg> tomman: MZLA seems to be an advertising company and a generative AI company on alternating days
21:52:05 <nsITobin> bad decision doing it on my birthday
21:52:36 <nsITobin> njsg: they are the every company where everyone is included unless you know jack shit about mozilla code or are named Tobin.. trust me
21:52:38 <njsg> news of the chatbot integration reached at least me, I think, exactly the day after I learned about the "promoted content in location bar" 'feature'
21:53:28 <njsg> there's also something about using commercial weather informaiton services, not sure if that one is on by default
21:53:41 <njsg> Firefox: Now with AI and advertising, but we removed full extensions and full themes.
21:53:54 <nsITobin> yep
21:54:14 <nsITobin> The Browser War must be fought on many fronts
21:54:22 <tomman> soon Firefox will drop the browser too
21:55:06 <njsg> I mean, there are a few things to note here, Firefox, at least the project, isn't exactly known for avoiding breaking changes or feature removal, so moves that are less good for some users aren't new
21:56:02 <tomman> Move! Fast! And! Break! Things!
21:56:10 <tomman> don't forget your healthy dose of Rust®
21:56:15 <njsg> But this isn't dropping ALSA support, this isn't dropping XUL extensions, this isn't changing the UI for the 100th time, this is adding two things that a sizable and vocal chunk of the online community which would embrace Firefox has strongly opposed
21:56:56 <nsITobin> njsg: I was thinking the same thing
21:57:12 <njsg> this is something people have been actively pointing out as evil or bad. Even if you have an idea that's actually not bad, MZLA would be expected to at least try to soften the bow
21:57:43 <njsg> but for some reason executives in corporate environments seem, at best, to have no clue about the reputation of Generative Autocomplete, or might actually even think it's great
21:58:18 <njsg> no idea what's going on at MZLA, what their executives think; I'd expect at least a bit of "uh... is this really a good idea?"
21:58:23 <nsITobin> njsg: well /someone/ needs to strip firefox down as some sort of reference browser app so other people can build real firefox forks not just 14 different unique ways of doing "stitch-and-pile" like waterfox and zenbrowser
21:58:36 <nsITobin> that is what Mozilla fears most
21:59:02 <njsg> that said, this is the same universe where nobody at Amazon flinched when they decided to remotely remove a work from Kindle e-readers
21:59:19 <njsg> and proceeded with the marvelous PR show that was remotely deleting nineteen eighty-four.
21:59:48 <nsITobin> well through seamonkey technology we will find a portal and get back to the ACTUAL universe we all obviously belong in..
22:00:09 <njsg> nsITobin: the problem is that there will be changes that make it so that the reference platform would have to have several levels/versions
22:00:13 <nsITobin> supposed to belong in*
22:00:55 <njsg> e.g. maybe some newer code designs are not very compatible with XUL extensions; some forks might want to focus on keeping NPAPI support
22:01:45 <nsITobin> njsg: I assume you know the basic firefox feature compliement up until they started adding human lab experiments as components right?
22:02:00 <tomman> the fact Mozilla has _executives_ tells you a lot of their priorities
22:02:32 <nsITobin> that code compared to the rest of the browser app source is reletively light and would be easier to float across versions vs any modern firefox fork in existance
22:04:47 <nsITobin> it is a personal mission of mine to have a basic command of every Mozilla tree from 24 to current release there is no exucse not to
22:05:19 <nsITobin> so far my gap remains 60-114
22:05:53 <nsITobin> that range is in prime rage for seamonkey backports as well as gaining an idea of the progression the code has generally gone
22:06:13 <nsITobin> and because Mozilla employees explicitly do not want me personally to have it.
22:10:30 <nsITobin> range*
22:35:17 <nsITobin> njsg: thing is a sidebar adding sidebarified generative AI entry points would be a perfect addition for a Firefox Add-ons Site