14:20:38 <tomman> https://www.ghacks.net/2024/10/01/mozillas-massive-lapse-in-judgement-causes-clash-with-ublock-origin-developer/ oh MZLA, you didn't!
14:21:02 <nsITobin> gorhill won't back down
14:21:12 <nsITobin> about the ONLY thing I respect him for
14:22:28 <njsg> oh Mozilla now goes the "privacy policy" route too
14:22:41 <nsITobin> jesus fucking christ
14:22:43 <njsg> https://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/google.html
14:22:59 <nsITobin> seriously what is mozilla doing
14:23:22 <nsITobin> I'd ask them but I am autobanned from every mozilla matrix channel by bot
14:26:23 <njsg> perhaps one of the worst things the current tech situation has is "app stores"
14:26:26 <tomman> and of course Hackernews is dogpiling on Gorhill for having balls to defend his principles
14:26:36 <njsg> it's okay as far as it remains as a side method to obtain the program you want
14:27:03 <njsg> it stops being okay when it's relied as a main distribution system, or worse, as the *sole* way to obtain a given program
14:27:05 <nsITobin> I know gorhill he is a smart guy but has incorrect ideas on UX and features and was extremely hostile to Pale Moon back when that wasn't excactly called for yet.. Pale Moon users worshiped the ground he posted on and his word was gospel.. despite the fact he didn't officially support Pale Moon until it was brought to his attention the added support (contributed from elsewhere) that added SeaMonkey support makes Gorhill's former argument of not
14:27:05 <nsITobin> targeting non-australis bs and Pale Moon users got their fully working and "supported" ublock ..
14:27:35 <njsg> In Windows 4 days there was DLL hell and there was lack of a package manager, but usually you could get the programs without an "app store" in the middle.
14:27:51 <nsITobin> windows 4?
14:27:59 <nsITobin> so you mean nt4?
14:28:03 <tomman> 9X
14:28:08 <njsg> 9x/Me
14:28:09 <tomman> nobody used NT4 :P
14:28:26 <njsg> tomman: oh, but wasn't NT4 considered more usable performance-wise?
14:28:49 <tomman> sure, if you could find drivers for it, install the right amount of Service Packs, and pray
14:28:55 <nsITobin> NT4 is literally NT3.51 with the full win32 shell
14:29:01 <tomman> oh, you want to play videogames? Forget it, 9x is it
14:29:15 <nsITobin> frankly windows 3.1's interface was better
14:30:09 <nsITobin> i wish the freenode logs were searchable
14:30:17 <tomman> I violently disagree, I never liked Program/File Manager
14:30:24 <nsITobin> i bet i can pull up so MANY statements that say automated testing doesn't work
14:30:25 <tomman> now, Win98's Explorer was peak Explorer
14:30:29 <nsITobin> and humans can't be trusted
14:30:45 <tomman> XP turned off the web bits, and Vista ruined it
14:30:48 <njsg> Windows NT 6.1 explorer is Aaaaaaaaaargh Dammit
14:30:51 <njsg> at least IMHO
14:30:55 <nsITobin> tomman: honestly i never liked the shell update
14:31:18 <tomman> 8 came and added The Ribbon™, and it was there where I wrote off Explorer.exe completely
14:31:33 <nsITobin> explorer in windows vista and 7 is top notch as far as that IE and directui tech could take em
14:31:36 <tomman> 95/NT4 Explorer is... yeah, too barebones yet
14:31:39 <nsITobin> tomman: newoldexplorer
14:31:44 <nsITobin> fixes that no problem
14:31:46 <njsg> the ribbon goes in my book as how not to do things, it's nice as an option, but as the only interface it rendered programs hard to use, features hard to find
14:31:50 <tomman> Still better than 3.x or 10+
14:31:50 <nsITobin> add openshell and get a proper statusbar back
14:31:59 <nsITobin> boom vista/7 explorer
14:32:29 <nsITobin> i literally refuse to use office 2007 and newer
14:32:31 <njsg> Office 2000 had the right approach by allowing a different mode where some options were hidden, but which could be disabled
14:32:39 <nsITobin> that is how dedicated I am to NOT using a ribbon
14:32:47 <nsITobin> I would use older xp64 mspaint
14:33:04 <nsITobin> i would avoid wordpad and on 8+ newoldexplorer or other hacks
14:33:08 <nsITobin> I HATE THE RIBBON
14:33:13 <njsg> to me it's not a matter of refusing to use, it's a matter of, if I'm looking at it, I just get immensely confused because things are not in what I see as a logical arrangement for that UI, and it seems to rely too much in lack of consistence, which also makes things less readable, discoverable, etc
14:33:37 * njsg wonders how does nsITobin plug IDE devices
14:33:38 <tomman> I'm a dinosaur. I like simple and ordered. This is why I use TOOLBARS
14:33:42 <nsITobin> but not nearly as much as needing to open a SEPERATE context menu for context menus now because they hid all the non-telemetry inidcated options
14:33:56 <tomman> I like arranging my tools just like I need them
14:34:04 <tomman> this is why I believe Office 97 was peak Office
14:34:29 <nsITobin> njsg: my fine motor skills are totally trash so thems ribbon cables.. pull hard enough to disconnect but not hard enough to slam my knuckles into sharp metal 2000s cases
14:34:35 <njsg> tomman: allow me to disagree. Office 2000 has Links.,
14:34:42 <njsg> s@,$@@
14:34:51 <tomman> if you want Links, play Zelda instead :P
14:34:56 <tomman> oh wait, there is only one
14:35:06 <njsg> but that Links is not felis catus!
14:35:36 <nsITobin> which one the mso2k+ links or that paper cat
14:35:49 <nsITobin> or was it a differently named cat
14:36:23 <nsITobin> well there was the paper one.. earl and links
14:37:08 <nsITobin> oh it was named Scribble
14:37:20 <nsITobin> Scribble, Earl, and Links
14:38:59 <njsg> sigh. one of these days I'll need to fire up Office 2000 and check the whole MSO agents gallery.
14:39:02 <nsITobin> my favorite agent chars were merlin links and f1
14:39:16 <njsg> I guess I've spent too much time with Links selected and don't remember many others
14:39:37 <nsITobin> that is the one I always chose sat on the taskbar above the tray
14:40:07 <nsITobin> controlling merlin with vb was fun
14:40:09 <nsITobin> i remember
14:41:32 <nsITobin> njsg: https://manpreetsingh80.github.io/clippyjs/demo/
14:57:01 <tomman> yay, I'm on the market for a new web hosting provider
14:57:13 <nsITobin> on or in?
14:57:16 <tomman> not only they raised the prices without warning, they are now deploying Clownflare craptchas
14:57:25 <nsITobin> cause I would recommend afterburst
14:57:38 <nsITobin> tho plain hosting or vps
14:57:40 <tomman> to enter their customer service portal, they had ReCaptcha
14:57:52 <tomman> now on top of that, they deployed Clownflare Turnstile
14:58:06 <tomman> nsITobin: foreign providers sadly do not work for me, I need something I can pay in local currency
14:58:26 <nsITobin> ok let me ask you this.. what are you hosting like how big is it?
15:02:09 <tomman> nsITobin: it's just a personal website, a couple subdomains, and email accounts
15:02:28 <nsITobin> ah email .. can't do anything about email
15:02:45 <tomman> yeah, that's the biggest deal for me, and surprisingly many hosting plans do not even have email these days
15:03:04 <tomman> (thaaaaanks Google)
15:03:34 <nsITobin> yeah i didn't get an email with my new crappy spectrum account
15:13:03 <tomman> ah well, ISPs also stopped doing the free email stuff decades ago here
15:13:17 <tomman> CANTV was the last one here, and they just let it die circa 2018 or so
18:42:16 <nsITobin> Alert Status
18:42:29 <nsITobin> Our Ted Cruz troll may be making a new apperence
18:42:37 <nsITobin> he just hit MCP forum and gitea
18:42:46 <nsITobin> frg_Away:
18:44:50 <nsITobin> so he must be making the rounds
18:51:41 <nsITobin> that's reassuring
18:51:53 <nsITobin> a googleusercontent rdns
19:28:35 <tomman> send him some Nintendo Ninjas
19:28:41 <tomman> they're at large killing emulators again
19:38:22 <nsITobin> I'll be back.
19:50:28 <nsITobin> Sorry I had to go scream at someone
19:50:41 <nsITobin> not about what was in the chat
19:50:52 <nsITobin> required a nick change
19:52:00 <nsITobin> No good deed ever goes unpunished and all that
20:49:44 * njsg sharpens the "+b" harpoon
20:50:51 <njsg> hopefully our friend will still be matched by existing rules? :-)