18:37:39 <tomman> https://www.jwz.org/blog/2024/10/mozillas-ceo-doubles-down-on-them-being-an-advertising-company-now/
18:37:50 <tomman> how naive, MZLA believes advertising can and should be saved :D
18:47:18 <nsITobin> tomman: yeah its insane
18:48:08 <tomman> aww, JWZ only blocked two idiots this time: one defending EME (because apparently Netflix is a "must have" for mankind), and another idiot complaining about JWZ being "emotional"
18:50:12 <nsITobin> tomman: why is JWZ saying shit i was saying 10 years ago
18:50:17 <nsITobin> literally
18:52:16 <nsITobin> 1. Building THE reference implementation web browser, and
18:52:23 <nsITobin> 2. Being a jugular-snapping attack dog on standards committees.
18:53:19 <tomman> I blame San Francisco
19:04:28 <tomman> https://mastodon.social/@jwz/113250642473455523 and this is the JWZ that pisses me off badly
19:06:54 <nsITobin> well i maintain UXP and Pale Moon tech was was fine throughout my tenure and certainly gets development
19:08:11 <nsITobin> he is right tho.. nice things were depercated in 2005 and have reached the end of long-term support
19:08:36 <tomman> OK, that hurts :D
19:09:27 <tomman> and this is why I now use Windows Me
19:09:47 <nsITobin> that was depercated before it was released
19:09:48 <nsITobin> lol
19:11:35 <technomancy> is there a trick to being able to follow links with the keyboard even if they're not textual? like on firefox I can use the surfingkeys extension which will label every clickable element with a pair of letters, or back in the day the conkeror browser used to have that built-in.
19:11:43 <technomancy> haven't been able to find anything like that for seamonkey; does it exist?
19:12:33 <nsITobin> i dunno i never even heard of anything like that save using tab and arrow keys somehow
19:12:49 <technomancy> yeah, that is technically viable but it's very slow compared to this
19:13:15 <technomancy> I kinda like seamonkey, but not enough to give up on the keyboard
19:27:17 <technomancy> I guess this is more of a browser for mouse users; that's fine
20:10:07 <njsg> technomancy: all I know is old, because I've not tried to use anything like that in gecko browsers for years now
20:11:18 <technomancy> yeah, I was able to get keysnail to work in palemoon, but it wouldn't install in seamonkey
20:11:32 <njsg> last I delved into this area: conqueror, on top of xulrunner, vimperator, pentadactyl. I think at least the latter might have run on seamonkey too, but not sure
20:12:06 <technomancy> yeah, conkeror was the pinnacle of browsers; nothing since has come close
20:12:30 <technomancy> it used to be possible to run conkeror on seamonkey but I couldn't get it working when I tried yesterday
20:12:44 <njsg> conqueror IIRC was meant to be Emacs-like and pentadactyl vim-like, but I pretty much could get the latter to be Emacs-like
20:13:14 <njsg> now never heard of keysnail, but it might be worth checking if it will work with SeaMonkey with little or no adaptation.
20:13:28 <technomancy> problem is webextensions explicitly ban rebinding ctrl-n and ctrl-p
20:13:35 <nsITobin> service smb start
20:13:37 <nsITobin> ...
20:13:40 <technomancy> despite the fact that I haven't opened a new window intentionally in over a decade
20:13:41 <njsg> in the base UI I suppose the only thing will be the tab key?
20:13:45 <njsg> nsITobin: Restarting service...
20:13:53 <njsg> nsITobin: Caching service dependencies...
20:13:58 <njsg> nsITobin: Segmentation fault
20:14:08 <nsITobin> LOL
20:14:11 <nsITobin> nice
20:14:19 <njsg> gdb: command not found
20:14:43 <nsITobin> i should hack bash to say Bad command or file name
20:15:05 <nsITobin> ... best make sure I have an alt shell installed before hacking bash
20:15:10 <nsITobin> LOL
20:16:07 <njsg> there's always busybox (it has its own sh, right?), and I'm sure minnie.tuhs.org will have sources for some shells
20:16:34 <njsg> technomancy: okay, that - about webexts not being able to bind some keybindings - is... wow.
20:16:41 <njsg> that bad, uh?
20:17:04 <technomancy> njsg: it's insultingly stupid
20:17:12 <technomancy> because it's justified "for security reasons"
20:18:10 <njsg> was that decided before or after preventing web pages to bind these bindings?
20:18:27 <njsg> because the old yellow webapp OWA did have that problem
20:18:37 <technomancy> that was a lot more recent
20:18:41 <njsg> close tab? oops, message marked as read, open tab? oops something else happened to message
20:18:44 <technomancy> at least with firefox it didn't hit until 2017
20:18:54 <technomancy> chrome had that problem much earlier tho
22:49:55 <njsg> mozilla bought k-9 mail to... add tracking?