14:08:02 <nsITobin> superglue gel worked at least for now .. it could snap off again i glued the arm directly to the lense cause it snapped just after the fasioner and these are rimless glasses so the lenses the nose bridge and the arms are your lot
14:08:57 <nsITobin> I kept adding more glue to try and build up a layer of materal seems ok
14:16:57 <frg_Away> nsITobin hi
14:17:43 <nsITobin> Good morning frg_Away
18:49:57 <frg_Away> patch day with the last Windows 7 updates is here. Farewell.
19:14:07 <nsITobin> Windows 7 was a good os one of the best versions of Windows ever released along with 3.1 and 95 and Win2k
19:28:07 <frg_Away> I heard some mumbling about service contracts so there is still hope for patches but we need t see next month. Probably not.
19:28:08 <frg_Away> It was the last OS from MS with a polished ui for sure even if I seldom run it these days outside of a vm.
19:28:12 <nsITobin> frg_Away: I still maintain Vista had superior aesthetics with the bold green/blue vs the pale... blue
19:29:00 <nsITobin> but yeah there was a good balance between explorification and old dialogs and property sheets and classy aesthtics and complete design language
19:29:18 <nsITobin> I basically follow the Windows Aero UX Guidelines .. overall
19:29:31 <nsITobin> even if I am not doing aero-style stuff no more
19:29:57 <frg_Away> nsITobin well it seems no Server 2008 updates this month so it is dead already.
19:30:39 <frg_Away> Server 2008 was probably the longest MS product in service.
19:30:41 <nsITobin> frg_Away: convince the association to start funding kernelex for windows 7 LOL
19:31:03 <frg_Away> nahh we need AI features first
19:31:10 <nsITobin> oh 2008 the 2008 so build 6001
19:31:25 <frg_Away> yes not 2008 R2
19:31:36 <nsITobin> frg_Away: get the js engine capable and I'll make a bloody AI consuming sidebar for seamonkey
19:31:45 <nsITobin> and i will then dare you to include it
19:31:46 <nsITobin> LOL
19:32:44 <frg_Away> I need an AI to decide on this first
19:33:45 <nsITobin> ask gemini, google knows what's best for mozilla don't ya know.. Gemini told me that objectively Mozilla needs replaced.
22:21:14 <njsg> gemini, did anyone ever clear that out about google blacklisting anything linking to the gemini protocol possibly being caused by google wanting to use the name themselves?
22:21:34 <njsg> frg_Away: I think xkcd has an AI prototype in one of the comics
22:22:28 <njsg> http://xkcd.com/221 (It's the random number one, "chosen by fair dice roll")
22:22:50 <njsg> that's probably already better than some "GenAI"s out there, if 4 is within the range
22:24:23 <njsg> If someone tries to massively rewrite portable shell scripts with "AI", that's time to dust off these "the end is nigh"  signs
22:25:05 <njsg> so far it's looking like there's one very good use of "GenAI": generating examples of coding errors and mistakes, and of portability issues.
22:25:39 * njsg says he's a bit sour about AI after it told him a space shuttle OV goes white side down on top of an SCA
22:26:07 <njsg> next thing, it's gonna tell me it's lefty tighty and righty loosy
22:40:35 <frg_Away> nsITobin server 2008 still got updates.
22:40:51 <nsITobin> ah
22:41:46 <frg_Away> Interesting that this one was really eol last month. No embedded option either linke for W7.
22:42:26 <frg_Away> Same for Server 2008 R2 I noticed. Next month will tell I think.
22:42:54 <nsITobin> a few updates occasionally trickle out after EoL has happened for every os since windows update
22:43:14 <nsITobin> well until windows update service as a service you can't disable
22:44:08 <nsITobin> in soviet windows windows update disables you
22:44:09 <nsITobin> frg_Away:
22:44:25 <frg_Away> nsITobin yes for things really critical.
22:45:04 <nsITobin> windows kernel level exploits are being used as justification to deny access to kernels and get more cryptography and layers on linux
22:45:07 <nsITobin> it upsets me
22:46:26 <nsITobin> so many features in the linux kernel throughout the latetr half of the 6x series has been for hyperscaled servers, AI hardware, and non-x86/arm/risc hardware .. and also more rust prep
22:46:44 <frg_Away> Well the latest VS2017 runtime from today now no longer installs in XP. sha256 signed only and who knows what else.
22:47:16 <nsITobin> I think UXP and we will regret going past 2015 if not clang
22:47:19 <nsITobin> in the end
22:48:16 <nsITobin> but unlike UXP.. seamonkey COULD use clang fairly sort of easily
22:48:19 <nsITobin> so there is that
22:49:36 <nsITobin> but hey I'd be game for rearchiteching it to use standard msys2 and mingw gcc if you all were
22:49:43 <frg_Away> Well we actuall do use itfor macOS and Windows x86.
22:50:14 <nsITobin> i knew it can be built with it but i didn't try doing it except for one misfired build
22:50:24 <nsITobin> on windows/linux
22:52:01 <frg_Away> x86 msvc is broken. Not sure which poatch did it but even if not I switched to clang long ago because the msvc x86 build would crash fairly often during media playback. Seems they used more memory than the clang ones.
22:54:07 <frg_Away> Have msys2 patches but the build broke. Needs more stuff and I ran out of time as usual.
22:54:52 <nsITobin> remember if you switch to msys2 it will assume a 64bit target by default because msys2 is 64bit native
22:55:50 <nsITobin> which is more useful of course but if you aren't aware of that fact and are used to msys1 being 32bit env it may be annoying
22:56:13 <frg_Away> Unless I find some time wont happen and if it does x86 builds will be tested before the patches go live.
22:56:19 <nsITobin> frg_Away: what pressing need is there for msys2 tho
22:57:10 <frg_Away> central now needs it and rather annoying to switch in this case. I also like to stay halfway up to date,
22:57:17 <nsITobin> cause if its just a matter of updating the package with msys1 still I been intending to do that for three years now.. actually five lol
22:59:47 <nsITobin> could also explore cross-compiling linux to windows the only real snag aside from making it work is nsis
23:01:18 <frg_Away> Its not a real cross compile. I pass
23:01:29 <frg_Away> Rather keeping a Windows builder.
23:04:47 <njsg> ah yes, it requires wine? (why? rust?)
23:05:00 <nsITobin> mingw
23:05:03 <frg_Away> Tools like rc and others I think
23:06:21 <nsITobin> g4jc did some preleminary cross compiling with UXP from linux to windows using that stuff and bypassing nsis it showed some promise but g4jc absolutely refused to share HOW .. he did it and then pissed off until i was gone.
23:09:33 <nsITobin> Linux 6.10 included RISCV processor architecture support for Rust.[17]
23:09:34 <nsITobin> In July 2024 a change was accepted into Linux to support multiple Rust versions for the first time, allowing compiling using both 1.78 (Released 2 May, 2024) and 1.79 (Released 13 June, 2024).[18]
23:09:34 <nsITobin> As of August 2024, Rust for Linux depends on unstable features of the Rust compiler.[1]
23:09:46 <nsITobin> brb forking the linux kernel
23:10:45 <njsg> depends on what [finnish swearing]
23:10:51 <nsITobin> Drivers scheduled for inclusion in Linux kernel:
23:10:51 <nsITobin> QR code DRM panic handler[18]
23:11:04 <nsITobin> redhat added a graphical amdgpu kernel panic qr screen
23:11:12 <nsITobin> this was to push rust in the kernel forward
23:11:30 <nsITobin> every counsel member and contributor here KNOWS what this means...
23:11:32 <nsITobin> WE
23:11:34 <nsITobin> have seen it before
23:11:56 <njsg> there's the question of whether it's a good idea to involve rust in linux (and one thing that raises a question is platform support: how's that going to work?)
23:12:13 <njsg> now using "unstable features", isn't that bringing mozilla-level rust awesomeness to linux?
23:12:28 <nsITobin> njsg: when has "how is that going to work" EVER been a question of any relevance to a rust project
23:12:51 <njsg> nsITobin: [WD50 joke]
23:14:27 <tomman> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41780297 great, another bad reimplementation of good ol' desktop apps ON THE WEB™
23:14:46 <njsg> what now?
23:14:47 <tomman> and of course the ONE SANE COMMENT in the entire thread gets buried in downvotes
23:14:51 <tomman> "An old version of Winamp will load very quickly and run very well on modest hardware. This webpage does not scroll smoothly on a 2019 Mac Book Pro and there's a long delay in loading the gratuitous, confusing video you have on the page. You have created a massive performance regression for no reason."
23:15:01 <tomman> because it insulted Hackernews web ego
23:15:05 <nsITobin> webamp?
23:15:13 <tomman> "It's a bit of fun. Relax."
23:15:23 <tomman> until someone ships that into production, then it's not "relax" anymore
23:15:30 <nsITobin> webamp is exactly the kind of stuff the apps on the web is supposed to be.. and we will get very few to none like it..
23:15:32 <njsg> is there a HN thread debating the awesome WinAmp so-called "copyleft" license?
23:15:39 <nsITobin> tomman:
23:15:41 <tomman> njsg: yep, there was one last week
23:16:46 <njsg> (the thing actually calls itself "copyleft", honestly it should be declared non-enforceable because it was evidently not written as a consistent text... it's outright hilarious how silly it becomes...)
23:17:12 <njsg> "you MUST assign copyright to us and then you MUST license your contributions to us" to me means you can't contribute
23:17:18 <tomman> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41636804 that's the one
23:21:50 <nsITobin> So I am gonna fork the Linux Kernel and strip out rust and all hardware support not x86_64
23:22:17 <nsITobin> and only dos/windows filesystems and ext and xfs
23:22:53 <nsITobin> maybe leave arm in but arm will likely go rust
23:24:17 <tomman> https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/08/linus_torvalds_grammar_complaint/ in the meanwhile, Linus has become an actual Grammar Nazi
23:24:38 <nsITobin> i think he wants it to be mroe direct language ..
23:24:54 <nsITobin> like "This fixes that" instead of a user story book entry
23:25:00 <nsITobin> that i can't fault him for
23:25:28 <nsITobin> i caught just as much shit over it at MCP even tho I merely emulated Mozilla in that regard
23:25:57 <nsITobin> doing and landing patches in a pseudo-mozilla way
23:37:41 <tomman> butbutbut I enjoy reading walls o' text about bugfixes :)
23:37:53 <tomman> including mandatory rants on your favorite hardware OEMs
23:38:06 <tomman> like that time Rockchip invented its own calendar
23:38:17 <tomman> because the Gregorian calendar sucked to them or something :D
23:38:42 <nsITobin> The wall of text should be in the bug .. right?
23:38:48 <nsITobin> not the commit message
23:39:00 <nsITobin> also good night frg
23:39:03 <tomman> sometimes the trauma is just too big
23:39:42 <nsITobin> tomman: aren't rants supposed to be for code comments?
23:39:43 <nsITobin> lol
23:39:55 <nsITobin> / XXXTobin: The fuck?!
23:40:19 <nsITobin> and // XXXTobin: This makes more sense than the crap that was there before.
23:40:38 <tomman> Oh, no doubt, I have my fair share of comment soap operas
23:40:54 <tomman> but sometimes the mere act of fixing a bug leaves deep emotional scars
23:41:09 <nsITobin> tomman: .. sometimes.. it does.
23:41:11 <njsg> tomman: didn't Excel mix starting at one and zero *and* get a year wrong in the leap year formula?
23:41:19 <nsITobin> and i am being honest not sarcastic it can
23:41:39 <njsg> if Excel did that, then I guess people coming up with their own calendars pales in comparison :-P
23:41:42 <tomman> sometimes computer go best with a shotgun :D
23:41:45 <nsITobin> the struggle to work out what the issue is let alone the solution can be very very painful and prolong over time
23:41:58 <njsg> nsITobin: no, rants are supposed to be for comp.os.linux.advocacy or the like
23:42:00 * njsg hides
23:42:24 <nsITobin> I am almost too young for news groups
23:42:28 <tomman> also, bugs you've been chasing for years without a clear solution, just kludgy workarounds that didn't really addressed the root cause because I DON'T KNOW?
23:42:28 <nsITobin> the real ones
23:42:46 <nsITobin> tomman: I think that is called MozDevelopment
23:42:48 <tomman> and yet once you finally drill down into said root cause, it turns out into a massive D'OH! Moment™
23:42:52 <nsITobin> and we are all guilty there
23:43:16 <nsITobin> yep no doubt.. MozDevelopment
23:43:17 <nsITobin> :P
23:43:21 <tomman> and then you feel the urge to quit software development, move to Siberia, and start herding cats
23:43:36 <nsITobin> Welcome to my tenure at MCP
23:44:06 <nsITobin> but with me it was give up computers and do gardening
23:44:47 <nsITobin> it's over 90 degrees every day for 9 months out of the year.. guess I am doing computers forever as long as the A/C holds out
23:44:48 <nsITobin> tomman: