00:27:57 <njsg> Sompi: I guess yle tends to be the exception for text articles with noscript, and yes, I think we've discussed some breakage already at yle too...
00:28:30 <njsg> still, they did have full-text in feeds some years ago, which was even better. now feeds just have the "summaries".
00:28:58 <njsg> And I haven't tried Areena in ages...
01:09:26 <Sompi> yes, even Yle is becoming more and more closed, and it is funded by our tax money...
01:09:45 <Sompi> Their RSS feed has became 100% useless
01:26:18 <njsg> not 100% for me, it now means I can't read directly, but can still be used to follow their news
01:26:34 <njsg> now I'd rather have the articles directly in the feed, yes...
01:29:44 <Sompi> https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica3/internetgoogle105.htm
01:50:27 <Harzilein> but at least yle still has teletext :)
01:50:58 <Harzilein> but yeah, rss feed becoming useless and not containing anything "above the fold" has become more common
01:51:29 <Harzilein> and it's rare to just get article feeds
03:38:51 <tomman> https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2024-12-01/google-chrome-is-now-an-anime-in-japanese-shorts-starring-sumire-uesaka/.218446 omg NOOOOOOOO~!
04:18:52 <nsITobin> tomman: well chrome is kawaii don't you know.. baka
04:19:37 <tomman> what's next, Chromium The Isekai? :D
04:20:04 <tomman> "My Web Browser Died And Reincarnated Into A Chrome Clone"
04:20:36 <nsITobin> my guess it will end up down the line as a magical girl anime... but techwise
04:21:26 <nsITobin> tomman: well maybe we need a fan-based parody of chrome
04:21:39 <nsITobin> Chromium Abridged
04:24:05 <nsITobin> or maybe we can get it to show up in the DevilArtemis universe for Cell to kick Chrome's ass
04:24:11 <nsITobin> tomman:
04:24:39 <nsITobin> assuming DA Cell ever actually fought anyone in those videos..
11:35:15 <Sompi> Another page that refuses to work with seamonkey: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/fluorocarbon
11:35:27 <Sompi> It says "your browser is out of date" but I have the newest Seamonkey
11:35:42 <Sompi> It has a browser check and it refuses to show the content if the browser is not "supported"
11:38:15 <Sompi> why are "science" websites suddenly all doing this?
11:41:41 <Sompi> and why are they even doing that at all? on that page there seems to be nothing that would be impossible for seamonkey
11:54:47 <njsg> Tobin: Chromium, an anime character which rallied to make hair extensions only 1cm long, and uses these to promote them, even if they're not that useful for the original purpose anymore
11:55:58 <njsg> Sompi: seems to load for me although it may need CSS hacks to expand the content further (unless the extension is dynamically loaded...), so it's a needless check made with JS
11:57:34 <njsg> Sompi: I'm not able to test that right now, but, if you didn't try that, check if a recent Fx UA makes it go away
11:58:12 <njsg> of course it could also be that sect that does error "handling" in the fashion of "at the slighlest non-conformity with what we want, show 'unsupported browser' or 'browser out of date'"
12:18:14 <Sompi> I think the latter is nowadays more common
12:18:49 <Sompi> JavaScript has so many new "features" (chromeisms) that do exactly the same thing as some older, simpler and easier "deprecated" API does
12:21:54 <Sompi> And deprecating features from a locally interpreted language like JavaScript is just asking for problems...
12:22:13 <Sompi> There will always be web pages that use the old way of doing things
12:23:16 <Sompi> And why those new ways of doing things are always so ridiculously complex? It's like they aren't even meant to be used without some complex megaframeworks and libraries in between the programmer and the actual JavaScript API...
12:49:00 <Sompi> njsg: "in the fashion of "at the slighlest non-conformity with what we want, show 'unsupported browser' or 'browser out of date'"
12:49:03 <Sompi> "
12:49:15 <Sompi> <- they are probably relying on some undefined behavior in the "supported" browsers
12:49:33 <Sompi> it is increasingly common
13:17:57 <Harzilein> <njsg> Tobin: Chromium, an anime character which rallied to make hair extensions only 1cm long, and uses these to promote them, even if they're not that useful for the original purpose anymore
13:18:05 <Harzilein> i think i should add that to some fortune file :D
13:42:48 <njsg> btw, what happened to quotes.burntelectrons.org
13:42:50 <njsg> ?
20:43:15 <therube> github.com & Assets.  https://github.com/martok/palefill/  didn't seem to help.
20:43:17 <therube> PaleMoon uses a UA override for github, & while PM works (with override & whatever other code it may natively have), an override was not enough for SeaMonkey.
20:44:43 <tomman> Palefill had stopped working long LONG ago on non-PM browsers due to some specific API that SM didn't implemented, IIRC
20:45:18 <tomman> https://github.com/martok/palefill/issues/67
20:45:32 <tomman> dom.getRootNode.enabled
20:46:09 <tomman> IIRC frg even declined to implement that patch back then for sound reasons
20:49:28 <nsITobin> the Unified XUL Platform has nearly complete support for shadowdom and customelements.
20:51:23 <frg_Away> We need to implement more of shadow dom web components. I still hope we can make stylo working and then it would be a breeze but there are not enough hours in the day and people actually doing frequnt backports you can count using te fingers on one hand....
20:52:17 <nsITobin> build system, frg.. it all comes back to build system..
20:53:58 <frg_Away> I don't think so. You need to invest some time and thsat what 99.9% are not willing to do.
20:55:31 <nsITobin> frg_Away: I do have one thing.. I am VERY close to ACTUALLY understanding the relationship between a xul custom element and its xbl forebarer..
20:55:53 <nsITobin> to the point where I ALMOST understand basic custom elements
20:58:44 <nsITobin> and i am getting a clearer picture of how the progression went.. its very facinating also intensely infuriating
21:07:21 <tomman> time to update the nightly here~
21:07:32 <tomman> any gotchas for today before I do The Usual™?
21:08:14 <frg_Away> tomman should be very stable
21:08:30 <tomman> going for it then, noticed it's now at .21
21:10:57 <nsITobin> i need older deps to build the "nomans land" of late 60s to 90s specifically older cbindgen
21:12:06 <nsITobin> tomman: did you survive?
21:12:40 <tomman> apparently yes~
21:13:15 <tomman> oh, the weird bug with cZ's user list seems to be gone
21:13:23 <tomman> at least we're better than Pat Gelsinger :P
21:22:57 <nsITobin> gcc pass 2
21:30:21 <frg_Away> tomman yes since 11/06 I think
21:31:05 <frg_Away> When we get stylo to work it probably needs xbl fixes and if not it probably needs other stuff and xbl fixes :)
21:37:48 <nsITobin> frg_Away: at some point lingering XBL code not removed in the purge is slaved to shadowdom in refactors
21:38:24 <nsITobin> the key is if XBL its self becomes a burdon to focus on perserving XUL features within xul customelements
21:38:53 <nsITobin> becomes the next option
21:43:36 <frg_Away> Not a fan of xbl but want to keep it for add-on comaptibility. But I find web components worse. Opaque and murky seems to be it here.
21:55:07 <Sompi> When was the last time that JavaScript got some new API feature that actually does something that wasn't possible before by using some older standard function?
21:55:34 <nsITobin> EME
21:55:36 <nsITobin> MSE
21:56:14 <nsITobin> technically all the webcomponents wasn't possible before because xbl was never a standard anyone used on the web
21:56:27 <nsITobin> but it certainly isn't NEW
21:56:51 <nsITobin> the question you should ask Sompi when was the last time anyone did anything original in tech
21:57:36 <Sompi> I meant that many new JavaScript APIs seem to do things that were already possible by using some older JavaScript API
21:57:54 <frg_Away> Well optional chaning and dynamic imports are ok among others. Turing js into a java bastard with private fields and others stuff not so.
21:57:55 <Sompi> And then they "deprecate" the old API, which is a very stupid thing to do in a locally interpreted language like JavaScript
21:58:09 <nsITobin> its more about adding stuff to javascript and dom that have no business being in a document object model or event scripting language
21:58:19 <nsITobin> the browser is an OS client
21:58:42 <nsITobin> its why I keep saying navigator in contrast whenever possible
21:59:15 <Sompi> What functionalities do dynamic imports make possible that weren't possible before?
21:59:27 <nsITobin> frg_Away: php is becoming js like on top of its pythonic nonsense additions
21:59:53 <nsITobin> importing modules on the fly
22:00:05 <nsITobin> its an eq of dynamically loading a jsm
22:00:08 <nsITobin> that's why its there
22:00:16 <frg_Away> The biggest problem is no real versioning and release management. just lets add stuff and call it the release the yera draft xcviii
22:00:19 <nsITobin> this is all still in some shape mozilla concepts
22:00:19 <Sompi> But isn't that already possible?
22:00:21 <nsITobin> remember
22:00:49 <nsITobin> EMCAScript the only language with a Stage 4
22:00:50 <frg_Away> ^of the year draft ...
22:01:09 <nsITobin> only other thing I can think of with a Stage 4 is.. cancer
22:01:50 <nsITobin> well i never understood how javascript versioning worked past when EMCA not Mozilla was defining it
22:02:01 <nsITobin> there was Javascript 1.7 and...
22:02:13 <Sompi> How HTML5 versioning works?
22:02:20 <nsITobin> ES4x ES5 ES6 and ESLGBTQ+ i guess
22:02:21 <Sompi> Isn't it officially just a "running standard"?
22:02:38 <nsITobin> "Living Standard"
22:02:40 <Sompi> So HTML5 can basically mean almost anything
22:02:45 <nsITobin> but no semblance of a Standard of Living
22:02:47 <nsITobin> ;)
22:03:00 <nsITobin> Sompi: yes
22:03:10 <nsITobin> this is why all us lunar freaks were pissed a decade ago
22:03:52 <nsITobin> well it was why I was pissed i dunno why they were REALLY i know I imposed me being pissed about it upon them.. that much is certain
22:04:26 <Sompi> I still prefer HTML 4.01 over HTML5 just because HTML 4 at least doesn't change all the time
22:04:32 <Sompi> If something _has_ to work _reliably_
22:04:39 <nsITobin> no fuck you, xhtml/1.0 transitional
22:04:43 <nsITobin> :P
22:04:54 <Sompi> It is also good
22:05:42 <nsITobin> It's XML or nothin!
22:06:01 <Sompi> html 4.01 is better supported by old browsers
22:06:05 <nsITobin> xml is our rightful future
22:06:13 <Sompi> I always write it in such way that it is also mostly html 3.2 compatible
22:06:41 <nsITobin> I used to compat to gecko 1.9.x
22:18:15 <nsITobin> maybe one day
22:18:49 <nsITobin> I am tired of ignoring this lesser new technology
22:20:34 <nsITobin> something I thought would be nice Sompi is if I wrote a JS lib that would just.. be "XBL5" as in read an nearly-xbl xml file and do the boilerplate for me.. like exactly how it was done before