14:29:47 Status meeting in 29 minutes - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2025-01-05 14:40:27 Status meeting in 19 minutes - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2025-01-05 14:49:07 Status meeting in 10 minutes - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2025-01-05 14:51:09 hi .* 14:53:08 hiya njsg 14:56:14 Status meeting in 3 minutes - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2025-01-05 14:58:40 Status meeting time - https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2025-01-05 14:58:58 Greetings all 14:59:11 greetings frg 14:59:17 Happy New Year all 14:59:22 Who's taking minutes? 14:59:25 seems to be a small audience this time. 14:59:28 me 15:00:10 late as usual. Just updated the last one. 15:00:49 A quick one then :) 15:00:59 Nominees for Friends of the Fish Tank? 15:01:24 ewong for release management and as IanN stated server wrangling 15:01:29 seconded 15:02:16 thirded 15:02:42 Action Items 15:03:47 BAU? 15:03:59 bau. Signing key is for infra I think. 15:06:02 yeah 15:06:04 Status of the SeaMonkey Infrastructure 15:06:36 I think we're using aus5 now 15:06:58 s@2024@2025@ on the IA-32 builds part? 15:07:01 I updated the 2019 builder and was able to do 2.53.20 beta and the final on it. The 2012 R2 server can be decommisioned. 15:08:42 we're also using a new server for linux builds, so certain lib requirements have changed 15:09:34 The linux i686 is affected the most. Minimum base os is now red hat 8 or *buntu 20. 15:10:13 I tested the release using Q4OS 5.7. 15:11:07 Personally I would cut x86 support loose btu I already stated this :) Windows 7 and 8.x can not even be udpated any longer unlike the x64 versions. 15:12:33 Anyone on 10 x86 is looney and not a toon :) 15:12:39 yeah, time's running out 15:12:54 maybe they're animaniacs 15:13:09 10 is EOL in Oct 25 15:13:27 not even checked if 11 x86 exists 15:13:31 [cartoon sketch idea for Coyote deploying ACME(tm) Windows 7 Updates for IA-32] 15:13:38 Lets see how big the outcry is abotu the new Linux i686 requirements. Windows insn't much of a problem building btu the crash rate is abotu 10 times higher because of ooms. 15:13:58 Status of the SeaMonkey Source Tree 15:14:17 No 11 is x64 and arm only. I would rather do arm in the future but its audience might be single persons :) 15:15:05 Not much herer from me. Updqted the wip branch a bit but real life is still in full steam unfortunately. 15:15:23 Bute we forgot to discuss the signing key. 15:15:52 oh yeah 15:16:18 Our Windows signing key expires tomorrow. Need to do something about it or the next release will ship unsigned. Can live with this but not a good image. 15:16:28 once 2.53.20 final is out the door, I willtry to coordinate with ewong and mcsmurf on sorting the new key out 15:16:39 issue being Microsoft's new requirements, right? 15:16:45 njsg: correct 15:17:13 New keya re all hardware based and need to be stored on an usb key or in a vault. I donÄt trhink it is an MS requirement. Seems to be the de facto standard now. 15:19:21 well it needs to practical for a virtual env 15:19:33 and not massively expensive 15:20:00 Release Train 15:21:06 2.53.20 was done early yesterday to still ship it signed. 15:21:22 Not much over the beta. 4 fixes. 2 from 115.19 15:21:31 oh, first meeting of the year~ 15:21:34 oh btw are the merges still happening tomorrow? 15:21:41 Shoudl appear soon. 15:22:03 This is usual rx11m territory :) 15:22:30 njsg: anything ACME™ sounds better than regular Windows Update, for sure 15:22:42 Extensions Tracking 15:23:14 my installed extensions here remain as useful/broken as usual 15:23:33 bau for me. 15:23:38 haven't had the time to figure out how to get that built-in version of jQuery working again on my mod of Redirector 15:23:51 pdf.js amazingly still works despite being oooooooooold 15:24:11 everything else clings to life but no mods have been needed so far in the last 6 months or more 15:24:12 lots of changes going into cZ, so please test nightlies 15:24:32 oooh, what changes exactly? 15:26:02 tomman: mostly code cleansing / modernising 15:26:13 So basically "smell for regressions" 15:26:16 Still in review Just check latets bugs or IanNs notes: 15:26:18 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&chfieldfrom=2018-01-01&chfieldto=Now&f1=component&list_id=15949575&o1=notequals&product=SeaMonkey&query_format=advanced&resolution=---&v1=Web%20Compatibility&order=changeddate%20DESC%2Cpriority%2Cbug_severity&query_based_on= 15:26:21 tomman: occasional bug fex 15:26:26 *fix 15:28:58 does anyone know of extensions that might inline "opengraph" metadata? I haven't checked yet, just wondering if anyone is using something. 15:29:25 There are at least some sites that require javascript to render the content but which include relevant pieces as META tags 15:29:50 mastodon, pinterest? 15:31:09 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?emailassigned_to1=1&query_format=advanced&component=Chat&email1=iannbugzilla%40gmail.com&list_id=17375029&emailtype1=substring&v1=2024-01-01&product=SeaMonkey&chfieldto=Now&o1=greaterthaneq&f1=creation_ts&chfieldfrom=2018-01-01&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED 15:31:34 (and pasteboard has twitter:image; you can check Page Info, first tab, to see what I mean, sometimes stuff will be there) 15:31:42 or did I mention this already in a previous meeting? 15:32:33 njsg web comatibility is urgk any way and I just sue a different browser for incompatible sites. 15:33:14 Stuff in the qip branch will help much but no eta. 15:33:21 ^compatibility 15:33:21 this sometimes reaches a wtf-level: mastodon requires javascript in versions 4.*, but includes post text and attachments and their alt text in meta tags. 15:33:22 let's hope 2025 is the year Alphabet is finally forced to divest of Chrome, to see if this put an end to this neverending featuritis treadmill on webdevs 15:33:43 that is, they do the work of including the post in the document, they just don't put it in the body. 15:34:03 2.Next, Feature List, Planning and Roundtable 15:34:23 If they are forced to set the search stuff free or not allowed to pay mozilla is finished but that is off topic.++ . 15:34:53 bau. Doing flip flops between wip branch normal branch and real life. 15:36:18 yeah, bau for me too 15:36:54 sadly the same level of bau here, hoping 2025 starts with more time 15:37:38 360 days to go~! 15:38:07 one less day than last year :( 15:38:31 yeah, this is a worrying trend, next thing days will be 23-hour long! 15:39:10 i'd not put it passed certain world leaders in 2025 15:44:55 AOB? 15:45:30 bau 15:45:49 Hi nsITobin Anything to add before we finish? 15:45:57 one moment 15:47:21 Not really 15:48:07 okay, thanks for your time today 15:48:20 next meeting in 3 weeks time, same bat channel, same bat time 15:48:40 Sorry I missed most of it 15:48:59 Jan 26? 15:49:37 yeah 15:49:53 26th Jan rather than Jan 2026 15:50:49 I should have some stuff by then ;) 15:51:51 oh right, didn't see the ambiguity in that 15:51:57 * njsg goes procure more caffeine 15:55:33 see you here and away. 16:00:11 we need an ACME™ Edition SeaMonkey 16:01:52 eh? 16:03:49 frg_Away: L-WIP-9999999-editoricons.patch should be Bug 883728 16:17:33 nsITobin is this one still relevant? I thought we got rid of the gifs already. 16:19:24 Good question 16:19:27 let me check 16:19:50 Hello 16:21:05 I have decided and put FireFox as the default browser - BUT SM say that it is still the default browser ... how to change that ? 16:25:56 I'd double-check in the platform you're using (freedesktop, Windows, ...) what the settings are 16:32:02 in the windows setting as default app I have already changed to FireFox 16:32:20 frg_Away: current state is PNG conversions only 16:33:06 yes I see. I do a quick reformat and add the form icon to small 16:33:36 Ray_Net: any chance it only changed one of several options? in that case then it might be worth a try to do the change from Firefox itself. 16:34:00 while I have worked out styling to replicate the hard background for round toolbar images I haven't done the bubble effect yet.. that is next on my agenda to work out 16:34:17 the dropshadow* 16:34:23 At least in NT6.1, the available UI to set application defaults is a bit limited, I think it tries to group it all in one option but I'm not sure that's always the case. 16:34:43 Ray_Net: how's your regedit skills 16:35:01 * njsg remembers when Windows actually had a UI to change file type (and protocol?) associations... 16:35:25 i seriously need to replace xdg-open 16:35:29 all the files type associations now are for Firefox 16:35:58 cause it fucking defaults everything including some files that have associations with seamonkey which then wants to redownload it from edge cache or whatever and THEN it will open correctly 16:35:59 I had first asked firefox to be the default 16:36:11 on linux 16:36:12 SeaMonkey and Firefox have code to set the defaults through the available platform, that at least ought to set it, I meant checking the platform as a way to make sure a change had happened, but if you did it via the platform's UI, then doing it via Firefox is worth a shot. 16:37:14 Ray_Net: when you say SeaMonkey still says it's the default, where are you seeing this? 16:37:17 shellservice and helper direct that on winders but its still just registry entries tho 8+ is more crap then ever to get it valid but still its all just regkeys in the end .. at least for now 16:37:59 nsITobin: my regedit skills are mostly limited to cursing about the builtin search :-P 16:38:04 but it's multilingual cursing 16:38:21 I see that in the edit-preference- browser 16:38:34 remember seamonkey is a suite 16:38:39 not JUST a web client 16:38:41 it written that it's already the default 16:38:49 so it has defaults for mail and maybe even rss 16:38:56 never knew if that actually worked or not 16:39:52 I don't know the state of seamonkey's shellservice tho.. I bypassed it for the Pale Moonized Basilisk firefox 52 shell service in Borealis and never did actually fully hook it up 16:40:07 i know it registers on 8+ for sure 16:40:25 but not all the conditions to determine if it is the default browser .. what version of windows? 16:40:34 and the "Set default browser" button is gryed 16:42:30 I will try a restart ... 16:43:02 k 16:46:13 I don't see a text saying it's already the default 16:46:24 but settings here are on the Advanced pane, not Browser 16:46:42 what I do see is buttons greyed out when SeaMonkey is the default 16:48:27 if the UI is in question observing the UI won't mean much until you confirm where and how and if its still registered as default for something.. The UI logic might be messed up.. it's XUL it happens.. but that is why I was asking questions related to the OS first 16:49:54 If it is 8+ you need to first set the new default client in Settings.. if its Windows 7.. well that's not that hard 16:50:41 essentually in 8+ registering normally only allows you to be CHOSEN it doesn't set the default for shit like web and mail clients 16:51:19 that is why shellservice tells helper to invoke the default choice interface rather than just being one and done like 7 and older 17:15:13 Seamonkey think always that it is still my default browser but clicking here http://www.randoevasion.be/fr/agenda opens it in fifeFox 17:17:04 adding that : browser.shell.checkDefaultBrowser false in the about:config did not help 17:22:23 that just checks, but I'm still puzzled as how are you seeing the indication inside SeaMonkey 17:22:41 did the UI for this change recently? 17:26:39 is see it in edit-preference-browser 17:28:47 it's written Seamonkey is already the default browser 17:28:47 Should I uninstall SM an install it ? 17:34:46 Ray_Net: which version of SeaMonkey is this? 17:36:50 SeaMonkey/2.53.3 17:37:23 but now I have a problem - how to delete an added item in the about:config ? 17:37:45 right click -> reset 17:38:13 well, context menu, which can be brought up by right click or shift+f10 17:38:33 reset have changed to a string instead of a boolean but it's still present 17:39:23 and the "delete" key doesnot the remove 17:40:44 it's present but will be gone, not sure if with closing about:config or if with a SM restart 17:41:08 ok, i wil try close-open 17:42:31 Ray_Net: okay, that explains the UI difference 17:43:31 close-open is a good solution 17:44:02 so far I think I see it still says it's the default before it's closed? 17:44:53 anyway SM think that is is the default brower 17:45:26 no the close-open was ok to remove resetted entries in tha about:config 17:45:52 no, scratch that, it updates without quitting 17:46:16 yeah, I meant for about:config, I just thought I had seen a thing with the browser association itself that actually wasn't there 17:47:52 I think that i must do an uninstall of SM and re-install it so he cannot be the default anymore 17:48:18 It's a good idea to upgrade to the last version 17:48:46 Ray_Net: what windows version is this? 17:49:10 Ray_Net: also, just tested with Firefox, the SeaMonkey preference pane does update and doesn't claim to be default 17:49:14 SeaMonkey/2.53.3 17:49:20 windows, not seamonkey 17:49:20 so might be something else... 17:49:36 er, that last bit was in continuation to "to be default" 17:49:57 the windows is version 10 latest update done 17:50:30 okay then from what nsITobin was saying, I wonder if there are issues with how the associations are done and checked for 17:51:01 no idea how detailed the defaults dialog is in Windows 10, you might want to check if it still offers a list of possible associations for Firefox in a more detailed view 17:51:47 on NT6.1, that's "Choose defaults for this program" after selecting Firefox in the "Set Default Programs" screen 17:52:02 anyway during a re-install the new SM will ask to be the default and I then do the choice: no 17:52:53 if you want to *unselect* SeaMonkey I think you have to check this with Windows or Firefox 17:53:05 but I might be missing something here, I'm not really a windows user. 17:54:30 in the windows setting for the default application, for the Browser i changed from SM to Firefox 17:55:49 nsITobin if you want to finh the small icon conversion be my guest. No problem changing the user in the bug patch too. Was just a simple conversion when I did it and its all wrong. Form should be the only one ok. 17:56:12 I hadn't seen what it did just read the patch 17:56:20 njsg thanks for all 17:57:07 frg_Away if it had some work done I can still use it for the larger bugs I just think that patch has been sitting up there for a while 17:57:55 yeah I started and got the clipping wrong. Then something else came up. The sizes might be wrong too. 18:07:18 -moz-image-region really should have made it into the standards 18:07:35 and the way Mozilla styles list items that way and shit.. doing it in HTML is painful 18:08:53 xr still uses my aero-style special component and it uses a backbutton in the same way as it is in mozilla except worse lol 18:08:59 https://xr.thereisonlyxul.org/special 18:10:28 in html you have to constrain the box and shift the background 18:10:56 see #binoc-caption-back 18:24:36 nsITobin seems phorge is the phab sucessor. But looks a bit dead too. Few commits 18:24:49 yeah it is 18:24:59 i looked into it cause its php 18:25:02 and I likes php 18:25:45 but I dunno if Mozilla is gonna keep using phab after the git transition 18:25:57 i fear they will in a year or so say screw this and move str8 to github 18:26:05 like almost everyone else 18:26:38 specialized Mozilla workflows will be seen as a liability 18:26:46 that isn't gonna change 18:26:56 we not :) heptapod it is as long as pissible 18:27:11 gitlab for the gaps 18:27:16 ^possible 18:27:34 by the time heptapod becomes not financially viable to keep offering except to rich legacy developers I should have an alternative solution 18:29:00 mq is such an unique feature and is deprecated. If removed you could just use straight git. Sam badness. 18:32:36 frankly at this point I am not sure what git gives me vs just tarball + patches or hgbundle and patches .. except dumb-http cloning 18:34:04 I use it as part of my workflow because that is what I been doing for the past decade but git can be annoying.. yet hg has a cross-platform advanced and largely decent UI .. git has barely anything acceptable which I deem by SourceTree 1.5 for Windows and no less than that .net abomination 18:34:21 git is easier to dist hg is easier to dev with 18:34:27 i think is my updated conclusion 18:34:28 frg_Away: 18:35:15 with structure 18:35:21 git is more unstructured 18:35:37 .. i kinda am starting to understand the issue .. what not the why anyway 18:44:05 git is mainstream and as we know mainstream is always better... 18:46:43 heh 18:48:23 have you guys vendored in autohell 2.13 exactly yet cause I dunno if anything other than older Mozilla actively uses that autoconf version 18:55:00 https://wiki.mercurial-scm.org/StaticHTTP 18:55:03 THERE WE GO 18:55:22 so SERVING hg and git for pull/cloning can be done from a basic webserver 19:45:41 frg_Away: apperently quilt is the design mq is based on 21:33:05 nsITobin 2.13 is in. I think all relevant dependencies also 21:33:16 ah good 21:37:02 frg_Away: yep editor icons (and sorting transparent copies) is gonna be work .. except for a few special cases like the folder icon and dealing with the 3d scissors dropshadow I should be able to get away with only manually cutting out the first state and then i can use those to easily cut out the other three states 21:39:13 nsITobin i am a css dummy so if you have something ready better ask IanN for review. If I should put something in the queues for testing which should work let me knoiw. 21:39:56 i can completely eliminate the disabled state using css and just desaturating and some opacity.. I am actually seeing some design bugs from the netscape era the spellcheck normal and hover states are swapped vs every other icon 21:43:04 lots of warnings too. Just didn't look into them. With all the broken websites I did go into backporting first. Doing ui fixes first feels a bit like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic to me. I now and then still do it :) 21:59:27 i dunno seems like thousands of patches to process and try and apply is a lot of work but UX polish can help retain users if not attract some more.. the toolkit has an identity crisis much of the time and the theme is called Modern but it isn't even up to 2009 skinning standards .. Modern is also often the basis for other skins and as it is built in and a complete including widget styling like textboxs .. with some re-work it could be made to support 21:59:27 a dark theme albeit without platform plumbing would be by pref and other color schemes.. As well as personas/static-lighteight themes 22:01:36 nsITobin yes should not be too shabby but what good is a browser which can not render most major sites? 22:03:12 as for dark themes I personally will happily review but not lift a finger. 20 years 3270 terminals was enough and they at least produced readable screens. 22:18:36 well nothing color scheme wise can get started until all the icans have transparent backgrounds ;) 22:20:14 get transparent icans make sure all the about pages have styling find all colors and make em a selection of css vars.. write code to control those values write xul for a small UI SeaMonkey can be whatever color or offer color schemes for users cross platform no platform modifications required so it stays out the way 22:21:14 and people can't say oh well i can't use it on my dark mode os or the color is ugly or hurts my eyes 22:27:34 nsITobin: at this rate if the look of modern is a problem, I'd personally prefer a separate theme for whatever is hype right now, perhaps "Monochrome" :-D 22:28:01 * njsg is attached to two SeaMonkey themes: Modern and Classic 22:28:47 the look is still fairly modern imo maybe not the icon style but the UX style is CERTAINLY modern enough with additional schemes or user choice on that front it can be suited or matched as they see fit or maybe i never get around to an extension for it and its just by a userChrome.css hack 22:29:14 trust me it isn't near as much work as you guys think it is 22:29:41 the hardest part is me cutting out icons and replicating the light/dark shadow effect which just takes some tweaking 22:32:39 besides i been working on this since 2013ish I'd like to get it done LOL 22:44:00 njsg yeah ! I have passed from SM 2.53.3 32 bits to SM 2.53.19 64 bits ans SM is not the default browser 23:24:04 nsITobin maybe you can style WIP-9999999-delete.patch a bit better. I like thre functionalty so I have not taken it out yet from the prerelease builds but its not ready for a release. Looks urgkkk. 23:30:59 checking 23:37:02 frg_Away: so does this clear all or just the selected magic'd address 23:37:16 selected address 23:45:52 that is so counter intuitive 23:46:14 it's also broken 23:47:40 oh it's unimpl'd right duh 23:48:56 nsITobin works for me 23:49:40 If you move over it the x appears. Straight port from TB 23:51:22 must be clunky widget handling yeah it works just not ALWAYS when you'd expect like you have to have more than one email address and be in another field 23:56:00 the extension this is based conceptually on put the button in the text field at the start.. I think it should go at the end of the text field All close buttons in seamonkey globally are on the right .. modern text box clear buttons are also typically in the field and on the right which is something Thunderbird is adding the modern form of to their text fields .. this autohide bs is taken for outlook parody.. i mean parity 23:56:35 autohide-slide 23:57:38 the feature is a good one tho. 23:58:07 https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/address-close-button/?src=search