13:12:35 well good news is I can export all the status meetings into some bastardized xml format the issue the content gets entity'd I will need to run tests to see if I can un-entity it without having to do any crazy fixups 13:13:03 mozilla's mediawiki has an export feature 13:20:12 view-source:https://wiki.mozilla.org/Special:Export/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2025-01-05 13:39:47 nsITobin hi 13:39:53 hello 13:47:19 tomman, how apt that this chromium shiet is https://americandialect.org/2023-word-of-the-year-is-enshittification/ 13:48:47 So I have setup this subdomain with an ftp server serving it for the SeaMonkey project to use as it sees fit.. set everyone up on it with a few at webroot and everyone else with their own subdirectory.. throw patches at each other or test builds or serve nightly builds .. whatever adhoc or regularly changing or modern infra sidestepping purpose you guys want to use the space for including an old style netscape about page if one is inclined. 13:51:21 oh ok. did u find people abusing it? cos we cant have nice things? 13:53:03 btw has anyone seen that chromium cef proxy that shits website screenshots at "old and insecure" browsers? 13:53:20 basically its chrome + vnc but with http proxy servers 13:54:06 Pale Moon users seem to be enammered 14:00:50 what? 14:01:34 https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=31978 14:04:13 Pale Moon users want cloud based modern browsers so they can click on images in Pale Moon to PRETEND it can follow the insane fluid modern requirements of browsers.. 14:04:59 instead of doing what the god damned project was redesigned to do which is have modern browsing.. ANYWAY 14:39:20 I can't wait to see cloudflare letting these proxies in while direct connections fail. 14:39:36 but to be fair their business *is* MITM :-P 14:41:46 i still say we just write up http/1.1 as impled in mozcode as a new specification for the web protocol 14:41:54 impl'd* 14:42:45 add the web:// scheme and push it as the solution to all the problems webapp corperate quic will cause for the proles 14:42:59 like my self 14:43:52 "it's a YOU problem, stop complaining about Clownflare, they produce a useful service for the 99%" 14:44:29 ugh, still sour from last night, never complain about Big Tech at a IRC room full of fanboys that run ISPs 14:44:34 well i have a better retort.. its not just a "me" problem.. it's a Tobin problem because the "me" is affected ;) 14:45:05 "butbutbut you have to test it on Chrome, which you refuse, it could be a CGNAT problem or something else! You refuse to test, so your complaint is INVALID!" 14:45:06 tomman: i want to have witnessed that 14:45:18 well, the room is #networking, right here at Libera 14:45:29 they don't like my rants about Clownflare being Clownflare 14:45:49 ah i am sure I could get banned from there pretty easily and not even have to say "fuckin moron" or "exterminate" once ;) 14:46:07 Nah, you will survive for more than that, but there are a bunch of other hotheads there 14:46:51 Anyway, Clownflare Turnsick is the bane of my existence right now 14:47:02 hope someone finds a nasty vulnerability there 14:47:04 ah but you forget.. not only am I me.. I carry my legacy as the New Tobin Paradigm.. that asshole you guys had to deal with some years back.. I am sure I can achieve getting banned no problem.. WHY WON'T YOU LET ME GET BANNED TOMMAN?! lol 14:47:27 because everybody else uses Chrome and have never heard from you or me :D 14:47:40 bad rep is no rep if nobody is involved at your scene 14:48:43 well MAYBE that needs to change.. tho have to pick the channels carefully cause too many channel bans in poopular channels and the network staff would HAVE to get involved and I can't even fault it. 15:43:13 sorry to hear. 18:32:43 what I can imagine is that you could get at least two different, if not polar opposite reactions about Cloudflare in #emacs 18:33:28 that's not a joke and that's meant as highlighting something good about that channel, that it does get different minds there depending on the time of day 18:34:15 but yeah, there will be people reacting like that. 18:34:47 but if someone is so attached to "shut up it's not a problem" and can't conceive doing engineering in the real world, they're out of touch. And they're lauding getting rid of the things that make the Internet what it is. 18:35:35 Cloudflare has had visible skill problems, and perhaps either could not grasp the concept of testing, or lacked more tests 18:35:49 and they've now decided to make their business "only this browsers will work" 18:35:54 s@this@these@ 22:22:44 tomman: so.. not banned yet somehow 22:23:05 I have expressed MANY opinions over there 23:01:59 njsg: "can't conceive doing engineering in the real world" 23:03:16 that sounds familar 23:03:23 guess this is all fake 23:04:41 hey, I'm now realizing that that'd also work as a review of the pentium FPU 23:04:57 lol 23:07:27 njsg: i mean this is the same "real world" where I was told by everyone on all sides that creating a Mozilla Add-ons Site without using umo, remora or zamboni was impossible.. did it anyway now they are letting Phoebus rot because it simply ain't fucked up yet beyond their own tinkering 23:08:00 I'm just tired of people pretending the world is just [their preferred choice] and that everything else doesn't exist and/or that it's okay to drop compatibility and portability in what is supposed to be an open platform. That's already bad as a trend, *but* I wonder if we're getting in a state where an increasing number of people just believes that's not part of it at all, testing, browser support, 23:08:07 (proper, non-WHATWG) standards... 23:10:29 in other news, Intel is still doomed 23:10:38 they should seriously consider merging with Boeing 23:11:04 that'd be like inviting Stephen Elop to direct Nokia 23:13:39 I mean I love MY preferences but shit what good are preferences when its all crap 23:15:24 honestly njsg i didn't believe I would have to still be fighting this war by now.. I would have thought superior stability and incramental enhancement standing in the face of rabid release and living death standards would be enough 23:15:54 to cast off this nightmare 23:16:13 but they keep going 23:16:16 (I'm not sure what the plan with Nokia and Elop was, and maybe I should check that, but... the near-time outcome was even stuff like Microsoft getting the Keilaniemi premises... and of course the death of what could have been a surviving segment of usable feature phones.) 23:17:04 well I am specifically blaming Mozilla for ruining flipphones with b2g 23:17:08 thats all i can find now 23:17:09 nsITobin: In recent times, say, the past two years or so, I find myself repeatedly comparing this with the late nineties, the obsession some had with using all Microsoft and pretending the world was just Microsoft, and the browser wars. I'd say in some ways it's possible to say we're now at the same or worse... 23:18:44 we are 23:19:08 nsITobin: Nokia had S40, and of course S60, to name just two things that could have had a future. IIRC the new Nokia-branded product lines include something looking like S40 but which is said not to be the same, feature-wise. 23:19:41 S40 is like, ok, it may have some things in design and organization that could be different, but overall it's still quite capable 23:44:08 njsg: the future was the moto razr with android and NOT the one they released after the fact 23:44:24 i wanted an original razr so badly 23:44:33 but it was GSM only 23:45:16 know what the crappy part of it is.. Japan continued to keep flip phones and got ANDROID flipphones 23:46:24 maybe someone should fork Android Ginerbread and update it for modern devices ungoogled of course get the userspace on a newer kernel and that might be spiffy 23:46:56 2.2 and 2.3 were the last versions I really liked 23:47:22 that felt like a smartphone along the lines I prefered 23:49:48 these days I guess in some countries more people are using GSM (as in 2G) now because of switch-offs 23:50:59 I'm not sure what my ideal design would be. I think I've not had experience with Android 2.x so far. 23:51:52 it wouldn't be good on a pure touch screen it needs buttons 23:52:07 oh yes buttons for sure 23:52:09 but pure touchscreens.. turns out not as good as buttons at least a few 23:52:31 i dunno touching a screen still seems wrong except for resistive 23:52:38 I'd say you'd want plenty of buttons even with a touchscreen. Make some actions doable by buttons too, have enough buttons for consistent actions through applications 23:53:42 and a physical keyboard can be a good addition too, but at the very least, enough buttons to cover basic actions you expect a lot of programs to have, like showing a menu, going back, leaving, etc 23:54:50 Ok, as much as I enjoy discussing this, I'm probably going AFK, it's some 8 hours before I can have coffee again and it's easier for me if I sleep through it. 23:55:03 i know tomman said he didn't like candybars.. but this one is superior .. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_enV_(VX9900) 23:55:26 https://www.ebay.com/itm/305696418953 23:55:27 that 23:55:32 That's not exactly a candybar... 23:55:33 tho not as worn 23:55:39 it's more like ye ole' Nokia Communicatore 23:55:44 --Communicator 23:55:45 tomman: exactly 23:55:58 This si what android phones need to be 23:56:05 and no folding displays don't count 23:56:14 candybars, so it's like a phone uses different GSM bands, so in Europe you get Mars phones, in the US you go with Milky Way phones? 23:56:29 I don't want to eat my phone, thanks :D 23:56:33 (sorry, better joke quality needs caffeine) 23:56:34 just much with the metrics some slim down here larger screen there.. nicer switches for the buttons 23:56:36 you know 23:56:46 but this general DESIGN would be great for someone like me 23:56:57 and i can fuckin make a phone call without looking using the keypad 23:57:35 but even if they JUST brought back an android slider 23:57:37 BlackBerry was a huge seller in Venezuela, people simply loved the keyboards (and BBM was a plus that kept people locked into the platform) 23:57:45 keyboard that would help so much 23:58:01 tomman: i prefered the palm treo form factor over blackberries standard 23:58:07 it was so huge that Android had a HARD time breaking into our market until 2013 or so 23:58:08 fit better in the hand or hands 23:58:42 frankly i'd be happer with a pots telephone network for voice comms.. worked fine for how many decades? 23:58:55 and fiber for data 23:58:57 at some point, 70% of the BlackBerries sold in Latin America were in my very own country 23:59:21 so you bought the last 70% of blackberries? 23:59:25 before they became irrelevant 23:59:39 people was THAT addicted to them (I never liked them, and even when BB did a flip BB -the Pearl Flip- it was still running clumsy software) 23:59:51 finally the BB killer was.... 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