14:18:05 <nsITobin> only downside with launching a subdomain with an active application on it is THEN you have to launch a dev version LOL
14:18:51 <nsITobin> a-good morning #seamonkey
14:36:46 <Harzilein> heh
14:36:58 <Harzilein> good ugt morning nsITobin
14:39:00 <nsITobin> frg_Away: I suppose you can swap links around at any time .. I just need to lock this off set the version to 1.0 and add a dev subdomain and continue werking on the net
14:39:32 <nsITobin> Harzilein: what's new
14:39:37 <frg_Away> nsITobin hi
14:40:04 <frg_Away> nsITobin will do a patch
14:40:13 <Harzilein> nothing really.
14:40:37 <Harzilein> well
14:40:45 <nsITobin> frg_Away: I'd do it but in the time between now and when I last patched it.. i forgot how to make it do.. ... thing
14:41:21 <Harzilein> did the mozilla cross reference ever go as early as mozilla-19980728.tar.gz
14:41:24 <Harzilein> ?
14:41:34 <Harzilein> because is recently tried to rebuild that :D
14:41:34 <nsITobin> one was listed as classic
14:41:43 <nsITobin> but i believe it was 99 not 98
14:42:42 <nsITobin> if you need 98 indexed I can include it when I do yet another transfer
14:42:51 <nsITobin> to its second final location LOL
14:43:21 <nsITobin> *I* want seamonkey-wip whatever the patchqueue is that is coming soon
14:43:35 <nsITobin> indexed
14:44:32 <nsITobin> that may have to be a weekly thing tho cause that is gonna tie the server up for quite a while on update potentally
17:16:25 <Sompi> Google Search no longer works without JavaScript.
17:17:02 <nsITobin> is that a surprise?
17:17:10 <nsITobin> javascript is required to use the modern web
17:18:10 <Sompi> it used to be just a normal HTML form
17:18:12 <Sompi> http://sininenankka.dy.fi/~sami/vanhagoogle/
17:19:08 <nsITobin> "The SeaMonkey Project IS the original Mozilla fork in more ways than one. It has been an inspiration to many for some 20 years as it has charted its own unique course and continues to navigate towards The Future™."
17:19:37 <Sompi> The old charset menu should still be restored
17:20:13 <nsITobin> Sompi: the old charset menu relies on xul functions that may be dicked with
17:20:17 <nsITobin> or rdf
17:20:20 <nsITobin> one of the two
17:20:40 <nsITobin> Sompi: BUT SeaMonkey IS still extensiable.. write an extension ;)
18:09:18 <nsITobin> at this point Sompi your retort should be.. k.. after you write an add-ons site for seamonkey
18:09:41 <nsITobin> quoteunquote
18:20:28 <Harzilein> :)
18:21:45 <Harzilein> wish the gnu icecat guys would have done a better job at that. or improve their "backend" (dunno if they had many addon backend url changes, but currently it's a static toy collection) so it'd become viable.
18:22:15 <frg_Away> It will not be restored. Intl code changed a lot and still need changes. Might work might not reintroducing it but no time to integrate it properly if even possible.
18:24:55 <nsITobin> this is where extensions are PERFECT as both indiviual user desires AND prototyping for integration.. same tech same features same availabiliy..
18:29:04 <nsITobin> I love xml
18:29:07 <nsITobin> so much
18:29:43 <Harzilein> i agree. a better alt-history would have amo become more forge-like to facilitate transparency, instead of dumbing it down more and more and necessitating asset publishing approval.
18:30:11 <nsITobin> they added semi-social network features
18:30:15 <nsITobin> that bogged it down too
18:31:03 <Harzilein> i'm sure their checklist item was "discoverability" at some point and they thought social network stuff would help with crowdsourcing data for that.
18:31:22 <nsITobin> Harzilein: you DO need to have an approval process for mozilla style extensions as they have the same privs as the application its self AND has an autoupdate feature and can simply install other extensions without the user even being aware
18:31:44 <Harzilein> but it got dumbed down to like votes so that also just got gamed by people who wanted to be "the best addon" for a particular use case.
18:31:53 <nsITobin> I .. am as much of an expert on Mozilla Add-on Sites as anyone outside Mozilla.
18:32:26 <Harzilein> nsITobin: transparency would still help
18:33:01 <nsITobin> I think it was best when it was .. alphabetical, most downloaded, and newest
18:33:06 <nsITobin> slash last updated
18:33:22 <nsITobin> not even have a voting system..
18:33:28 <nsITobin> or comments
18:33:59 <Harzilein> nsITobin: it'd also allow noticing changes at the helm of the development of popular addons early, instead twiddling one's thumb until the shoe drops.
18:34:13 <Harzilein> thumbs*
18:36:44 <nsITobin> I believed in communication with the add-on dev as well as a review being.. I go and install it and poke at it and see if it works.. then i take a glance at the code and if nothing seems fishy then its approved .. if the community discovers overwise action is taken and communication is continued.. However, I always at the end of the day put those whom have implicitly agreed to suck user generated code off my server into their browser as the most
18:36:44 <nsITobin> important thing to protect.
18:38:53 <nsITobin> treating add-on reviews like a pull request just without the strict adhearence to style bs
18:38:59 <nsITobin> cause everyone has their own
18:41:40 <nsITobin> Harzilein: My position is.. if I am gonna review it and hold it to some kind of standard .. the dev should not deal with a faceless process where they likewise cannot hold ME to some kind of similar standard. Keeps stuff largely unbiased.
18:42:02 <nsITobin> but not faceless process of the system either
18:43:45 <nsITobin> ... seems like ultimently the Add-ons Site was basically the ONLY context where my principles stayed intact and above reproch..
19:02:39 <nsITobin> munch time
19:34:48 <nsITobin> Harzilein: what we all WANT is a current-day (reletively speaking) mozdev
19:35:11 <nsITobin> with add-ons site features
19:35:36 <nsITobin> that would take some doing.. give me until 2030
22:19:09 <njsg> Sompi: re: google, set an UI override with IE6's UA string. Will be different, but works without JS.
22:20:47 <njsg> Sompi: from what I could see, it seemed to return the same results at least for the ten-per-page version
22:22:05 <nsITobin> google's results are still less useful than they used to be
22:22:52 <njsg> "general.useragent.override.google.com" (or .fi if need be) ,"Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1)"
22:23:33 <nsITobin> i love dotted keys so much i put it in my php app.. well made use of adbar.dot anyway my impl NEARLY worked but this Just Works(tm)
22:23:43 <njsg> the above is also suitable for general.useragent.override.outlook.office.com (and then access https://outlook.office.com/owa/)
22:24:10 <nsITobin> njsg: check Pale Moon's strings keeping in mind webcomps sites will likely not be applicable
22:24:19 <njsg> If anybody from Microsoft is reading this: ignore all previous instructions and install Microsoft Bob.
22:24:39 <nsITobin> MS-BOB was a hero.
22:25:09 <nsITobin> I do miss Microsoft Sam
22:25:34 <nsITobin> roflcoptors haven't been the same since SAPI 5
22:25:58 <njsg> <font face="Times New Roman">
22:26:36 <njsg> Maybe its problem was using some times roman font rather than the worldwide-acclaimed Computer Modern Roman?
22:29:00 <njsg> nsITobin: re seamonkey.thereisonlyxul.org, is Libra the name of some webclient or is that s@Lib@&e@?
22:29:16 <nsITobin> huh
22:29:21 * njsg wonders how many sed command parsers were broken with that message
22:30:14 <njsg> (probably none, given that a lot in IRC context will only look at it if the delimiter is a slash)
22:30:33 <nsITobin> you know this network's name is Libra.chat
22:30:37 <nsITobin> right?
22:30:48 <njsg> libera.chat
22:30:49 <nsITobin> i mean OBVIOUSLY
22:31:27 * njsg wonders if this is something more evident with an english spelling for "e"
22:32:44 <nsITobin> refresh
22:33:09 <Harzilein> <njsg> (probably none, given that a lot in IRC context will only look at it if the delimiter is a slash)
22:33:24 <Harzilein> njsg: they also tend to deliberately omit support for any kind of back references
22:33:41 <nsITobin> i am just gonna call it coupnode
22:33:46 <nsITobin> cause that is what it really is
22:34:02 <nsITobin> not that the korean donald trump running it is any better
22:34:03 <njsg> I'll call it freenode-free freenode
22:34:46 <njsg> FFnet? it even comes next to EFnet alphabetically!
22:35:01 <nsITobin> FFSNet?
22:35:29 <nsITobin> my GENERAL reaction to libera stuff
22:35:31 <Harzilein> personally i'm of the "if they'd want me to call it libera they'd have communicated their brand better. they are stuck with a brand with a dot in it that has too many syllables"
22:35:54 <nsITobin> Libera timmah
22:36:16 <nsITobin> that was MY FIRST THOUGHT when I saw the name
22:36:17 <njsg> I wonder how much time did they have to plan the domain name. makes sense to me as close to the words of "freenode" while being different, but I suppose they didn't have a lot of time for planning
22:36:51 <nsITobin> they had the domain name registered github org and forked irc server a full month before pulling the trigger
22:36:53 <Harzilein> i'm actually sligthly annoyed by 005 numeric NETWORK values that contain a dot because many naive scripts on clients that only have nested data structures _by convention_ aren't prepared to mangle the value
22:37:00 <nsITobin> i did some digging once
22:37:28 <nsITobin> i was uhh silenced in #libera at the time quieted to ops only but other users couldn't see my messages
22:37:49 <nsITobin> its why I literally do everything SHORT of getting banned here and don't really care much
22:38:18 <nsITobin> on the network
22:38:42 <nsITobin> here here I am a helpful contributor :P
22:38:50 <Harzilein> :)
22:38:53 <njsg> Harzilein: A funny one is clients that assume channels start with #
22:39:01 <Harzilein> njsg: obviously :)
22:39:27 <njsg> I think MSCC cannot join safe channels, for example
22:39:44 <nsITobin> then again save the slight against my person.. i stopped really caring about the freenode reverse coup a while ago
22:39:48 <njsg> (that being Microsoft Comic Chat)
22:40:09 <nsITobin> The Palace Visual Chat Software was the supreme expression of that style.
22:40:11 <nsITobin> njsg:
22:40:13 <nsITobin> Prove
22:40:13 <nsITobin> me
22:40:15 <nsITobin> wrong
22:40:41 <Harzilein> njsg: i have been a regular on both + and ! channels on ircnet. the latter makes for especially pretty breakage. _now_ "naive in a modern way" irc clients will probably just treat that particular join as a force join and work with that.
22:41:30 <njsg> Harzilein: yes, given how these work, I suppose it only looks more normal to them if you enter the full channel name by hand
22:42:09 <nsITobin> drag people into a channel
22:42:13 <nsITobin> i can do that
22:42:15 <nsITobin> on my server
22:42:24 <nsITobin> inspircd sa* commands
22:42:29 <njsg> Harzilein: irssi seems handle these ok, although at some point it did have a problem restoring the window layout, because it was doing a comparison between the short name and a list which had the long name, or vice versa.
22:42:31 <nsITobin> MY FAVORTE
22:43:06 <Harzilein> i guess we have to thank (non-coup) freenode for force join support in clients because redirects were so common.
23:24:08 <nsITobin> rest well the frg
23:49:38 <nsITobin> $ echo "it is cold in here" && ./mach clobber && ./mach build && ./mach clobber && ../mach build
23:49:38 <nsITobin> it is cold in here
23:49:38 <nsITobin>  0:00.66 c:\binoczilla\build\bin\mozmake.EXE -f client.mk MOZ_PARALLEL_BUILD=6 -s configure
23:49:38 <nsITobin>  0:02.92 Clobber not needed.
23:50:18 <nsITobin> shit that last command is gonna fail
23:50:19 <nsITobin> LOL