12:50:48 So Let's Encrypt is ending email notices 12:51:40 Why? So they dont have to pay to send emails about xerts that expote every SIX DAYS?! 12:51:53 Forcing automation 12:52:17 Expire 12:52:54 Which makes let's encrypt unsuitable for me 12:53:56 I already have to propigate them already use dns verification becausr my web config is not conducive to this shit 12:54:10 It is fucking bullshit 12:55:10 Pay with cash or pay with blind obedience 12:56:25 Just more raising the god damned bar artifically of whom can have a website 12:56:49 I been saying that for a decade 12:58:06 Time to seek and locate if they have a public space to get banned from 13:16:18 they literally tout automation automation success automation in their posts.. IF this was important for privacy and security it would not be left up to an automated process 13:16:56 or be made less accessible unless you set up automation for your server to sooner or later weekly authorization to be seen as valid in $majorBrowsers 13:17:05 That's the last fucking straw 13:17:09 Seriously. 13:17:15 It's gone too far. 13:17:52 Streamlining technology that requires forced central auth for ... sharing thoughts and information 13:17:56 No 13:18:06 I won't support it anymore. 13:23:26 So.. here is what needs dealt with.. 1) I will need CA cert money or everything collapses down to ONE wildcard ca cert.. 2) We need to come up with a strategy to add self-signed as a replacement for plain http and actually do it.. and get the moon people to do so as well.. 13:25:54 come up with modern mozilla patches that do it too try and sell them to the other Mozilla forks and then someone who is NOT me then sells the patch to mozilla proper ... but i suppose none of that is gonna happen either 13:58:09 I think me learning things and THEN judging is somehow worse than just an ignorant dismissal somehow 13:58:11 :D 13:59:28 also overloading yet again. probably in rust, eh? 14:00:18 i guess it's sensible from a marketing perspective 14:00:47 i think the word i'm missing is chutzpah :3 14:01:19 Harzilein: https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/why-is-lets-encrypt-hostile-to-manual-system-operators/233174 14:01:31 I will be banned from ALL Mozilla touched properies by summer! 14:01:35 i mean 14:01:40 this is important 14:01:46 others should do the same 14:02:01 tho getting banned is optional but not unlikely 14:48:11 How about I just give up instead. 14:49:13 I'll just do that 14:55:21 I am done striking out anywhere.. there is nothing worth my time and effort. It's all fucked beyond repair. If anyone needs anything I'll be on my server. 15:06:54 For clarification i am not upset with anyone here at seamonkey i am just upset and being in the channel has been more disrraction than helpful to most including me. Time to break the habit and be here when it is relevant and helpful. 16:22:05 nsITobin seems te 6 day ones are only optional. Probably for people wanting to have fun with expired certs. No notice looks like cost cutting which I can understand. 'Bulk emails do cost. 19:02:20 frg_Away: 20 bucks says I just laid out their plan for them and they will do it exactly as I described because its simpler than what they were planning 19:03:11 just .. much later when everyone has forgot 19:03:18 i am ignoring it now 19:03:23 nothing I can really do 19:06:09 I can't tell. I am usually are happy to pay a few bucks for services and these free for all ones sooner or later run onto trouble. Would be the same with SeaMonkey if we had a million users and would need to pay for download traffice etc. Exactly the problem mozilla faces now. 19:08:18 well open source used to look out for each other provide space and mirrors and stuff it is a core part of what I want to be able to provide but of course unless its access via seamonkey or something UXP based every browser will discriminate against my stuff .. and in turn i am locked out from stuff like cloudflare because of their abusive and discriminating of browsers that would otherwise access my site fine but modern browser descriminate against 19:09:34 every level is blocked unless I provide the browser too or get people to use seamonkey unless i keep compramising my self and my systems to these manufactured requirements 19:09:56 that will change the moment i get it working 19:10:04 it is so frustrating and disempowering 19:11:51 also frg_Away don't forget we used to be able to ship stuff at around 20 megs per target os.. now its more than a CD just to relase for windows linux and source 19:12:03 forget langpacks or locale builds 19:12:07 or mac 19:12:11 or artifacts 19:12:18 JUST basic release is like a cd every time 19:14:03 last I checked for UXP it was like 3-400 for source tarball and each release was something like 35 megs plus the zip file another 35 megs and a mar file another 35 megs times every target os 19:14:12 for seamonkey its even larger 19:14:22 modern mozilla.. jesus 19:16:25 Well cetran now has more than 550 rust crates in accounting for 400 MB source. Talk about bloat.... 19:16:33 ^central 19:17:38 Anyway can't change the world but I became picky where I spend my money and it is not on google or MS stuff. 19:18:08 Mostly buy used hardware too these days. 19:20:16 Well I may never know how to write proper c++ but I now have every confidence I can learn to some degree how to write classical Mozilla C++ 19:21:25 I have done a few things now so I should be able to learn more 19:22:16 oddly enough my nsAesthetic PHP coding I been doing lately has helped me reconize certain bits 19:24:01 frg_Away: if I have even the most remote chance of changing ELEMENTS of the world to be better I think it is gonna be based on what I produce cause what I say overall hasn't done much and is unlikely to do much going forward at least for the time being 19:24:26 cloudflare physically crashing PM, https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32064 19:24:28 SeaMonkey doesn't seem to crash, but then doesn't work either. 19:24:30 must be the new alt+right, er, trump, er, musk ;-) 19:24:51 therube: I thought *I* was supposed to be the new altright.. 19:25:20 oh the FINAL AltRight 19:25:29 yeah I was depercated in 2021 19:25:32 removed in 2022 19:27:49 https://repo.palemoon.org/MoonchildProductions/UXP/commit/ee7f7385c3eb8e54d0866619e642429a2b07f3a4 19:27:59 that is really the only relevent bit therube 19:30:41 that is why I prefer the slow way going thru the mozilla patches. Usually not a problem then but slow.... 19:30:49 properly someone should craft a test to check for this null condition on structuredclonewriter writestring .. obviously seamonkey doesn't have bigint yet but bigint being a modern feature is likely what cf is testing for and the bogus value triggered the crash.. seamonkey may crash with a bogus nonbigint call to that method 19:32:35 The wip branch has it 19:32:44 frg_Away: seems Moonchild has gone from automated testing bad to all testing bad cause especially with stuff he backports from Mozilla he doesn't much test stuff let alone bash the hell out of releases during releng week 19:33:32 and if I had not instilled personal testing responsibility on other remaining contributors UXP would be a disaster right now not just a touch delapidated in some areas 19:35:46 the reason for the personal testing push? because Moonchild isn't good at pull requests and reviews either and often blindmerges 19:40:51 frg_Away: how's it doing in WIP? 19:41:01 guess I can see for my self :P 19:41:45 end of 68 but slower now because i skipped stuff and need to do more rebases and/or checks. 19:42:39 wasn't really in the mood too in the last weeks. Too much real life stuff. 19:43:41 I am getting oome erros on startup with BigInt enabled but have not compiled with the latest fixes. Even with the OOM I see no fallout so not sure what is going on here. 19:43:45 i doubt anyone expected you to be but fairly sure everyone appreciates what you have gotten done this year 19:43:53 ^oom errors 19:44:36 I wish it would be faster. Too many sites break. 19:45:23 dynamic imports seem to be fine and ebay is beter in wip but broken also becasue of the removed optional chaining for now. 19:47:10 even if webcomponents .. customelements and shadowdom fall by the wayside which may happen esmodules will be here forever.. 19:47:14 unfortently 19:53:55 can't say I dislike the modules concept. Web components on the other hand.... 20:02:42 well that's the real thing about all this.. each thing in isolution or only paired with a couple other things can be pretty cool.. but webcomponents doesn't really work like that you go in and eventually you are using react or coding your own slightly less convoluted js framework to be easier 20:02:52 isolation* 20:04:23 or a lot of ES6+ features it really needs all the rest or a significant chunk of it to do what is being done today.. 20:07:30 strictly speaking save for a few bits of sugar for example I really don't need anything more advanced than PHP 7.3 let alone 8.1 but more and more the language is changing into something else and older stuff is being busted for it.. after everything else.. I will fork PHP if it goes too far and just have it be the BinOC Server Language or some dumbass name.. Not like the top companies are gonna be clammering for my PHP solutions 23:27:16 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42946718 the hottest Chromeism, fresh out the labs 23:27:28 shipping next week on your favorite frame-not-works!4