00:21:09 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42953508 oooh! 00:21:21 someone escalated our case to the Hackernews Customer Service! 00:34:57 well, and as usual, half of the Internet still insists that it's a "ME" problem 00:35:00 stay Klassy, IRC~ 00:35:38 "why Clownflare should remove the ability for their users to let them increase their security level?" 00:36:05 while refusing to recognize that the problem is their craptcha that basically blocks browsers by desgin 00:36:08 --design 00:36:21 i swear, sometimes I believe half of the Internet work for Big Tech :/ 00:43:31 in the meanwhile, this is half of the Internet for me: https://media.tsdx.net.ve/clownflare_blocked.png 00:55:39 well, it's official: Seamonkey cannot get past the craptcha anymore 00:55:56 even using the inspector trick, I can get the box to render, but no checkbox ever appears 00:56:06 instead the page reloads over and over and over 00:56:16 I'm effectively blocked from ever using CF-protected websites 00:56:28 they keep changing crap over and over for no good reason 01:04:04 Anyone who decides my issues are a "ME" problem just inhearited me as their issue. 01:04:20 i mean after this long that HAS to be clear to everyone right tomman? 01:04:57 Well, now let's hope the request from help to Hackernews Customer Support does get a Clownflare supremo involved 01:05:02 but I'm not holding my breath 01:05:24 just got told this somewhere else: "If the domain admins want to harden their security level and as a result, that presents 2-bit browsers from accessing the site then that's not Cloudflare's issue." 01:05:57 Anyway... i guess I've been officially banned from half of the Internet, and worse, it wasn't by Drumpf or Maduro decree :/ 01:06:10 tomman: would it help if I invaded? cause I doubt it.. 01:06:15 nah, don't bother 01:06:26 it will only make things worse because people will not listen 01:07:34 However, feel free to give your input at the Hackernews thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42953508 01:07:43 maybe you can get dang'd this time :/ 01:07:52 wow, the thread now refuses to load! 01:07:58 it just gives a "Sorry." error 01:08:07 tomman: I may have caused it actually with my recent visits to WhatWG and Let's Encrypt 01:08:14 HN has been kinda screwy tonight 01:08:29 ah, it now loaded, 185 comments so far 01:09:37 I'll be back in a few trahs needs to go out 01:09:48 most of the comments are unrelated "CF blocks me on Firefox/Chromium under Linux", the good ol' "Pale Moon has unfixed security issues because it's a old Firefox fork" FUD, and people justifying its usage of Clownflare because "the other half of the Internet are bots attacking my website" 01:10:01 unfortently i don't have any biohazard bags for html5 stuff so it will have to stay in place 01:10:30 tomman: it is a FACT Pale Moon is occasionally TOO security patched because the patches bust Pale Moon functioning 01:10:37 these people don't have a fuckin clue 01:11:20 > The Cloudflare tool does not complete its verifications, resulting in an endless "Verifying..." loop and thus none of the websites in question can be accessed. All you get to see is Cloudflare. 01:11:34 FWIW the error console yields some noise 01:11:45 > ReferenceError: BigInt is not defined 01:11:52 ...wait, that one wasn't there 10 minutes ago 01:12:13 > TypeError: k[l] is undefined 01:12:19 that one however is always there, always unhelpful 01:12:29 also, a bunch of CSP errors 01:12:38 but I guess those ones are intentional 01:13:40 amazingly the Send Feedback link (when it eventually renders) DO work as intended 01:14:06 you get a intentionally vague form where you can only select what problem you have, a "I give my consent to send diag info" checkbox, and a Submit button 01:14:42 sometimes I get some warnings for unexpected NaN values 01:15:01 ...ah, those come directly from devtools, so I guess unrelated noise 01:16:05 So... Turnsickle™ requires BigInt, absolutely, for no goddamned reason today 01:16:15 wonder if the k[i] undefined error is related 01:21:39 > Turnstile Widget seem to have crashed: oz4c4 01:21:43 ohohoho~! 01:30:07 tomman: i said that was likely and that the non-bigint codepath may crash if given similar garbage data 01:30:09 or whatever 01:30:15 in seamonkey 01:30:17 needs tested 01:31:43 Sometimes I don't even get the BigInt errors on devtools 01:31:51 it's... random-ish 01:32:45 what I did learned is that eventually Turnsickle may crash: "Turnstile Widget seem to have crashed:" 01:32:58 no stacktrace, just a 5-character varying code 01:35:49 nsITobin: in any case there is no BigInt support yet on the nightlies 01:46:42 tomman: but the function that got the null check in Pale Moon also has a non-bigint version with a nullcheck added that function is in seamonkey and may crash if fed garbage data just no one ever has.. 01:59:56 also tomman I chimed in on hackernews but it may not be what you were expecting unless you have picked up that I really only have ONE conversation ever and it streams across everything I connect to LOL 02:06:43 and never actually ends 02:07:03 it merely flows through topics bending back for any unresolved 02:07:14 its like how i communicate most of the time 02:07:58 stops here geos on in #binaryoutcast comes back spreads to whomever I am challenging comes back.. That is why I think I need to try .. harder than I did today to break the habit.. 02:08:26 I have been having a never ending conversation for 15 years it seems 02:08:33 started when I showed up here 02:08:36 i think 02:08:53 strange to think about though 02:10:42 the more I poke at that bastard Turnstile, the more inconsistent behavior I get 02:11:04 sometimes it goes away fast, but instead it triggers the endless page reload loop 02:11:14 sometimes i get the BigInt error, sometimes don't 02:11:36 sometimes it gets stuck for long enough to show the "Stuck? Send feedback" link that nobody will read at CF's HQ 02:11:50 sometimes it... internally "crashes", but no backtrace is logged 02:12:27 what I've yet to get tonight is a clickable checkbox 02:13:09 when the widget goes away (either because it exits or crashes), you get a spinning circle in its place 02:13:32 which eventually leads to another cycle on the endless page reload loop 02:17:20 the ONE consistent thing is that the Turnstile widget will not render unless poked by Devtools' inspector 02:17:54 and even then you cannot highlight its children elements within the document tree on on the Inspector tab 02:18:05 that one indeed is a very weird SM-specific bug 02:21:51 i am sure it is designed to be inconsistant so it can't be faked 02:22:27 i could like websites THINK seamonkey has customelements that's reletively easy but it would fail when trying to construct one 02:22:33 for example 02:26:35 ha, so the "Turnstile Widget seems to have crashed" message is not even a real crash 02:26:48 it just comes after some timeout elapses somewhere, about 60 seconds 02:27:37 the timeout triggers some event that deems that the widget must have "crashed", prints a message to console, and removes the widget, replacing it by a spinning circle, and eventually reloading the page 03:27:28 tomman: Yeah I remember that behavior from before 04:17:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhQbpiqpFek 04:17:42 I made a small spreadsheet program 04:17:52 For POSIX and DOS compatible operating systems 04:34:55 get php running on DOS 04:35:01 and I will write some stuff LOL 04:40:35 modern php may be too memory hungry 04:40:49 php 4? 11:06:05 hi, looks like bookmarks restore does not work in 2.53.20 11:06:17 Anyone knows when it'll be fixed? 11:29:05 well, our plead for help at Hackernews has gained 100 more comments (mostly noise, sadly), and ZERO CF representatives 11:29:27 however, there was also some Clownflare outage reported: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42960291 11:29:44 and CF's head honcho is literally the first answer saying "oops, fixed!" 11:30:10 of course, customers first, end users can go and get eaten by a grue if they're Thinking Different™ 11:42:26 frg_Away: looks like bookmarks restore does not work in 2.53.20 11:43:02 when is it going to be fixed? 11:44:25 it is already fixed. Next release. If you are on Linux macOS you can pick a prerelease build https://archive.seamonkey-project.org/nightly/index.html 11:44:32 Can do a Windows one too 11:44:57 I'm on windows 11:45:41 I used pre release from Bill's site but.. sad! 11:46:24 let me know when there's a good pre-release 11:46:28 thanks 11:47:10 which arch and language? 11:47:17 x 64 en-US? 11:47:20 yes 11:47:32 and x32 if exists 11:49:31 will upload mine in a few minutes to tobin site. 11:49:53 I need a url to his site :-) 11:50:27 just a minute 11:58:49 drat didn't bookmark the download url. 11:58:53 https://www.pinballz.net/custom/frg/seamonkey-2.53.21b1pre.en-US.win64.installer.exe 11:59:30 Needs the runtime https://www.pinballz.net/custom/frg/vc_redist.x64.exe 11:59:41 I need a zip for the portable 12:00:18 and I don't understand what's the last link 12:00:32 I prefer to wait for a good pre, like bill used to do 12:00:59 I only install after checking on the side 12:01:30 all the PlacesUtils functions that were removed from the stable .20 broke my addon 12:02:05 https://www.pinballz.net/custom/frg/seamonkey-2.53.21b1pre.en-US.win64.zip 12:02:21 still needs to runtime. 12:02:43 wonder that these functions still worked. 12:03:05 ^the runtime 12:03:13 what redist version is this? 12:03:55 not only worked, were also part of addon 12:04:26 Vs2015 to 2022. I usually build without the dlls.Less bloat and needed my other applications too usually. 12:04:45 Can do a bundled build but takes a while. 12:05:13 I think I have those redist installed 12:05:42 Will not start without. This is the latets but an older version usually works. 12:06:21 our signing key expired so not signed. Would probably have shipped 2,.53.20.1 otherwise. 12:06:28 Is this (resist) going to be required for next ver? what ver is it? 53.21 or? 12:07:00 ok, so, I'll test this on the side, w/o installing 12:07:09 and wait for a proper pre-release 12:07:18 where are they going to be now? 12:07:19 no official build will bundle the runtime files 12:07:28 https://github.com/LadybirdBrowser/ladybird/issues/226 hmmm, the Ladybird devs somewhat documented what Turnstile wants 12:07:42 but release notes will mention the need? 12:08:03 2.523.21 will probably the last one shipping an x86 version 12:08:14 no mention for the BigInt stuff, as the issue was filled last year, tho 12:08:21 yes, I saw that from the last status meeting 12:08:33 I think its a mistake, but that's just me 12:10:59 you can still do your own builds. Crash rate is about 10 times higher and usually out of memory. Linux i686 is totally on the way out and hared to compile even now. Windows is not so much of a problem but really not one version still in service which is worth it. Anyone on 10 x86 is nuts ;) 12:11:13 ^hard to compile 12:11:33 lol, not going to do builds, but thanks for the idea 12:12:09 as long as SM keeps going 12:12:49 Debian 13 finally removed i686, so for those the road is already over 12:13:12 Fedora even wants to kill early amd64 versions, but then... Fedora. 12:13:27 did you check the OS of the majority of SM users? 12:13:33 I still need to do some places stuff. More or less early 60 now but I don't expect much breakage from the remaining ones. The old api was on life support even in original 56 and much stuff broken. 12:13:43 I mean Linux/Windows/Mac 12:14:21 IceCold10: 3GB (which is usually the max you can get per process on stock Windows) is nowhere near enough for the Modern Web :( 12:14:25 Is this a pre-warning for the next break of my addons? :-) 12:14:33 I did a few for bookmarks 12:14:41 ah, addons 12:14:49 back in about 15 years ago 12:14:51 worthy doing a inventory of your addons 12:15:03 and be on the hunt for possible regressions 12:15:07 or breakage 12:15:15 ewong is running the stats but from the crashes it seems x86 is the minority. With the new Linux builder system requirements unfortunately became too high too. Basically no official i686 distribution left where you could run it. 12:15:47 I'm asking in general, not architecture 12:16:08 just curious 12:17:04 yes, tomman, I have a way of doing this: 12:17:18 if the addon stopped working, I check... :-) 12:17:34 not the most professional but works for the lazy 12:17:35 run the error console and you will usually find what broke this time 12:17:54 yea, that's debug time (after) 12:18:18 but I'm curious about stats per OS in general 12:18:22 any numbers? 12:19:34 I don't have full up to date stats but I think Windows is the majority then Linux and even some macOS users. All in all probably a few 1000 only if even this high. 12:19:59 ouch 12:20:26 and to think netscape used to be a major player back in the day 12:20:51 so this is why Clownflare wants us dead :O 12:21:16 ? 12:21:20 explain plz 12:21:52 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42953508 this happens several times a year for us not using mainstream browsers 12:22:36 anyone uses libreWolf? 12:22:58 frg: wonder if I hit the stats, since I've been only using the nightlies for the good part of the last 3 years 12:23:14 tomman they don't care. This is usually not personal but just a corparate entity wanting to make money with as less cost as possible. Yeah for the good of the people too right.... 12:27:51 ewong usually counts the try to update hits which is flaky at best. I usually run 3 instances on 2 computers. No telemetry phoning home to tell us that you use SeaMonkey. 12:31:03 IceCold10 did you ge the zip and exe? 12:31:32 I did, thanks 12:32:15 oki. Has the latest stuff in but mostly cZ changes. 12:32:39 thanks 12:35:03 need to see that Windows builds end up in the nighty archive too 13:11:25 https://sourceforge.net/p/forge/site-support/26494/ oh boy, even SourceFail got Clownflared :/ 13:11:38 > Yes, we have many custom rules to determine when to show a CloudFlare challenge, and modified some of them to avoid impact on Pale Moon users. 13:11:58 however... they at least pretend to care, unlike your average CF user! 13:13:46 FWIW, SourceForge works here, no clownwalls triggered 13:36:33 About 90mins ago, frg posted "2.523.21 will probably the last one shipping an x86 version"?? Version *2.523.21* ?? I'm guessing THAT could be a while off! A LONG while off!! ;-P 13:36:34 When might the Version number change to 3.xx.xx?? ;-) 13:43:01 Just assume 2.53.21 :) 13:44:45 Thought about 2.57 because weare almost at that full level without the bad stuff but in reality it doesn't make much of a dent whatever we call it. 2.x will stay internally for add-on compatibility for sure. 13:45:54 Assumed, FRG .... but it provided an entry point for my real question ..... When will you guys move to Ver 3.xx?? ..... Yeah, I suppose 2.53.21 still indicates DEVELOPMENT *IS* occuring. ;-) 13:47:27 3 is too low. We need to get ahead of chrome and call it 9999.01 13:48:11 and a daily release cycle for new fetaures. Help wanted! 13:48:17 hooray :thumbsup: 13:49:26 AH!! Agent 99!! Now there's some good memories. ;- 13:50:55 Frg-Away .... I would love to if I could ...... but I'm guessing you're just a little further down the road than DOS 6!! ;-) 13:57:39 Yews I still have DOS 2000 floppy images 14:00:54 DOS 2000? Never heard of it!!After DOS 6, I think 14:01:31 IBM Dos 14:01:48 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_DOS 14:02:17 I moved to Win 95/98 .... then a bit of Turbo Pascal .... and then I gave up Programming!! Becames a User! 14:03:11 Night!! Night!! 14:03:18 If it were not for SeaMonkey I would give up too. Not interested in becomis a test rabbit or private data donator. 14:05:42 Hey .... from what I read in the Win11 NG, that's pretty much what MicroSoft is wanting ..... All their Users to become Unpaid Beta Testers!! 14:10:51 it has been like that since Windows 8 14:11:15 in other news, the cake is a lie 15:12:44 Good morning #SeaMonkey 16:02:50 What should be the default for network.http.sendOriginHeader? 16:03:27 it defaults to 0 on a stock install here, but some sites will not work unless set to 1 (for example, one of my banks will throw a bogus error and break the login page with sendOriginHeader = 0) 16:03:43 line 1915 -- pref("network.http.sendOriginHeader", 0); 16:04:56 usage https://xr.thereisonlyxul.org/seamonkey-2.53/source/netwerk/protocol/http/nsHttpChannel.cpp#8626 16:05:09 https://xr.thereisonlyxul.org/seamonkey-2.53/ident?i=sSendOriginHeader 16:05:59 there is no 2 so why is it an int var 16:06:11 pref* 16:06:44 wonder if it is time to change that default value, since some sites now require it 16:06:59 cloudflare & PM & uBlock work-around 16:07:01 https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32064 16:07:02 https://repo.palemoon.org/MoonchildProductions/UXP/commit/ee7f7385c3eb8e54d0866619e642429a2b07f3a4 16:07:28 therube: we know 16:07:31 ;) 16:07:53 SM doesn't crash, tho 16:07:55 i still contend the non-big int version of the method which seamonkey has may also need a nullcheck 16:08:14 it just bails out after someone asks to use a class that doesn't exist, like any other JS 16:09:34 of course, Clownflare doesn't even bother doing something as simple as typeof BigInt !== "undefined" 16:09:38 tomman: the non-bigint version of the method in Pale Moon also got a nullcheck this method is not being called incorrectly by cloudflare but may still be vulnerable but nothing has poked it like cf is doing to the bigint version UXP has 16:09:51 they just go and assume "it's a Mozilla product, therefore BigInt is a given, right?" 16:09:52 tomman: i can fake that 16:10:05 i can say I support something and it will be noop or crash 16:10:26 now yes everything is firefox 16:10:29 and old firefox 16:10:39 Wonder how Turnsickle would react to a noop BigInt implmementation 16:10:48 I guess it would still deem your browser as "unapproved" 16:10:56 including seamonkey thunderbird Pale Moon Borealis Interlink .. least it is better than what google thinks which is we are all browser toolbars 16:11:04 :D 16:11:41 Greetings fellow Toolbar! 16:11:54 "Verify you're not a toolbar" 16:11:56 here we are a bunch of toolbars in a toolbox 16:12:16 tomman: yeah basically 16:13:31 when will inhuman machines demanding proof we are human will just piss people off enough to do away with it 16:20:07 nsITobin I think the header stuff came up before. I think i didn't backport enough for 2 to be safe. Maybe 1. 16:20:53 wip doesn't crash either with BigInt enabled but clownflare still dislikes it. 16:21:27 weird, I now got a very unexpected behavior from Turnsickle 16:21:39 ...very rare times it will render a QR code instead of the CF logo 16:22:00 the QR code when scanned contains... a ID (maybe a Ray ID? But different from the one at the bottom of the page) 16:22:10 managed to reproduce it twice 16:23:19 ...why even render a QR there!? 16:23:25 did they wanted to Rickroll us!? 16:24:24 well it is clear they know who and what these browsers are and are now by policy discrinimating against it judging by a consistant pattern whenever mentioned not just Pale Moon but others 16:24:25 FWIW our plea for help at HN is still at the frontpage (now ranked 20th), with almost 1100 votes and 369 comments 16:24:58 but it's outranked by "doing stupid stuff with AI and PDFs" (ranked 6th) by slightly more votes albeit less comments 16:25:45 the only other frontpage history with more comments is "WB dumped a bunch of old bad movies for free at YT", with half the votes but over 400 comments 16:26:15 any site showing qr codes just wants to show the world how hip and mobile centric they are. 16:26:18 ...oh, and the irrelevant opinions on software dev from some rando (29th ranked) 16:26:58 ha, ironically when Denso invented the QR Code, they only envisioned its use for tracking car parts :D 16:30:43 well for mobile there are not many other options. I just dislike this when no other link is provided. Totally useless on a destop. 17:03:42 nsITobin when I upload files to your site what is the public url again? I put up a Windows build but forgot to bookmark the last time for downloads. 17:04:24 seafiles.thereisonlyxul.org/ since you are gonna be an admin you are set at the webroot.. your folder is in people/frg 17:04:55 so https://seafiles.thereisonlyxul.org/people/frg/ 17:05:14 i have an index.txt gaurding autodir 17:06:45 I uploaded to the nightly dir. is this accessible? 17:06:53 yep 17:07:41 I'll update the symlinks .. i intend a script to read that text file to do it on cron just need to write a script 17:07:42 hmm >I thought I used this url. Need to check 17:09:07 seafiles also allows plain http as well 17:09:20 yup must have mistyped it: https://seafiles.thereisonlyxul.org/nightly/2025/02/2025-02-06-00-00-00-comm-253/seamonkey-2.53.21b1pre.en-US.win64.installer.exe 17:14:03 http://seafiles.thereisonlyxul.org/nightly/latest-comm-253/ 17:14:06 ;) 17:18:42 thanks again 17:19:09 i been paying for this server specifically for three years and did nothing with it thank you for getting some use out of it 17:19:45 I am pretty sure SeaMonkey e.V. can cover the costs if you want. Ask IanN_Away. 17:21:38 This is one of two servers I have that I got overspec'd to make up for the overhead of going from openvz to kvm these two servers are irreplaceable but I pay 15 per with my small dns/irc server which I pay 7 for a month.. Obviously I am gonna pay for it if i can even if it sits idle but I will keep it in mind should the situation get more uncertain. 17:25:19 Afterburst really is a great host.. decent prices.. will get you stuff and help when you ask but otherwise unmanaged and rather predictably stable and they let you alone more or less to do your stuff. 17:29:29 I really want to improve the MXR experience though like getting search results sorted by path if not something smerter get more parts of it moved to PHP etc.. I mean my coat of paint and php cgirunner has done a lot.. but yeah I dunno if I can even make it run on anything past EL8 17:30:45 while I finally figured out glimpse with some minor help to keep that going .. PHP5 is not being kept .. as static as has been in recent distros.. 17:30:58 sorry Perl5 17:35:07 anyway I should do some stuffs today aside from move a symbolic link LOL 17:35:17 already ssh'd in no excuse! 20:05:02 dropped to 30th place, about to go away from front page :/ 20:05:09 also the comment thread is depressing 20:52:00 yeah it is 20:52:40 I mean i think I defended my self but that wasn't why I posted I posted to preemtively kill the old and insecure mantra and it just plays out anyway 20:52:51 you got a fanboy, at least :D 20:52:58 really going to show there is no real talking at these people anymore 20:53:08 (that Dalewyn guy almost always get downvoted to oblivion at HN, BTW) 20:53:39 I mean he didn't even bother to cite the updated version of events as Moonchild tells it 20:53:42 But yeah, over half of the comments are "I run web sites/servers/etc and I absolutely need the DDoS protection, and I don't care about the 0.1%ers" 20:54:29 I don't accept older drafts of fanfics about me I want the bleeding edge.. I am sure by now I completely wiped every Pale Moon server before I left causing Moonchild to have to recode everything from sheer memory 20:54:32 I should really create an HN account and empty the rage within my soul there, but then I would be downvoted and dang'd in minutes 20:54:39 not gonna give them that luxury~ 20:55:11 tomman: write for Binary Outcast.. only reason I stopped was one rage writer was boring 20:56:53 tomman: but at some point gotta ask is raging at the machine really gonna do much when the machine is raging its self.. 23:27:37 And we're officially dead at HN, now buried at page 3, position 78 :/ 23:27:51 well blame me 23:27:52 Zero. Clownflare. Answers. 23:27:54 most do 23:27:57 nah 23:27:58 ;) 23:28:18 But I officially lost any respect I could have left towards Clownflare CEO 23:28:27 which DID responded on another unrelated CF thread the same day 23:28:47 he MUST have seen ours when checking out HN (he is a regular reader and doesn't like negative criticism that much) 23:28:57 but... I guess his lawyers told him "don't" 23:29:04 Or he just hate us 23:29:37 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42960708 this is him 23:30:03 well elon has my social security and medicare/medicaid information and i called him out before trump was elected and the techleft also hates me so I am good and fucked.. it is sorda liberating 23:30:17 on twitter* 23:30:20 apparently some of the zillion services they run (and on which Hackernews heavily relies on) had a minor outage, people complained at HN long after the outage ended 23:30:26 and the CEO apologized briefly 23:30:31 so i may not be HIGH on the list.. but rest assured I am ON the list 23:30:37 .. it's nice to be included 23:30:40 but then... this is a paid service, and the ones complaining were paid customers :/ 23:32:20 it is a race.. between trump/elon gutting federal benefits and grants.. elon being thrown out and trump being perpetually blocked.. and as elon works his personal enemies list I signed up for 23:33:35 > The silence from CloudFlare staff is rather deafening, especially as they commented on the (newer) outage post. 23:33:41 someone noticed, not just me :/ 23:35:09 https://community.cloudflare.com/t/disappointed-in-handling-of-less-popular-browsers/766860 how lovely, a Paying Customer™ complaining for us 23:35:19 thread locked by CF staff in 3... 2... 1... 23:36:03 WOW 23:36:08 the Wine AppDB now opens! 23:36:17 I mean, no Clownflare firewall! 23:36:22 let's go 23:38:06 dunno what happened, maybe someone backtracked? 23:38:32 2-3 hours ago it was still brickwalled by Executive Order of Clownflare 23:38:39 but now it just.. lets me in 23:38:45 time to file some testdata before CF notices!