01:19:39 <JesusGod-Pope666> Do you guys support jxl and avif?
01:21:36 <tomman> no, and no
01:21:48 <tomman> also I thought Google had killed JPEG-XL by decree
01:22:08 <tomman> JXL has been... polemical, to say it the least
01:22:16 <JesusGod-Pope666> Apparently
01:22:41 <tomman> and yeah, sadly we don't have AVIF yet - no real reason to use it either, but unfortunately i've found a couple blogs using it for no good reason at all
01:22:57 <JesusGod-Pope666> I was thinking of my picture app on my website. I know it does not support the big jp2 I think it was called but....
01:22:57 <tomman> (AVIF is patent encumbered, since it's a descendant of HEVC, ick)
01:23:06 <JesusGod-Pope666> Maybe it supports the other 2
01:23:21 <JesusGod-Pope666> Avif it said to be open like jxl
01:23:42 <tomman> not really
01:23:53 <tomman> the format itself is "open" as specs are available publicly
01:24:21 <tomman> but it uses HEVC for compression, which is patent emcumbered (it's a MPEG codec, and dealing with the MPEG-LA licensing cartel is no fun)
01:24:30 <tomman> and patents will not expire for a couple decades or so
01:24:44 <tomman> wait
01:24:49 <tomman> disregard that I suck dongs
01:24:51 <tomman> that's HEIC!
01:25:00 <tomman> AVIF is AV1, D'OH~!
01:25:29 <tomman> Yeah, that makes it clean, alas, we don't support it yet... and it is not a priority
01:25:37 <JesusGod-Pope666> I have like +80.000 pictures and 25% would be a decent amount of storage and less stream.
01:25:45 <tomman> (I myself have zero use case for it - JPEG and PNG serve me well and everything renders those)
01:25:48 <JesusGod-Pope666> Yes avif is AV1
01:25:56 <tomman> eh, we end users no longer use dialup
01:26:07 <JesusGod-Pope666> I don't care what you use or not.
01:26:09 <tomman> I know that server operators are charged by the byte
01:26:20 <tomman> but that's not really a good reason to break compatiblity
01:26:22 <tomman> but then that's me
01:26:34 <tomman> reminds me when JWZ converted all his animated GIFs to MP4s
01:27:06 <tomman> sure, he saved a TON of bandwidth, but also made my browsing experience miserable (As he LOVES animated gifs and MP4s take a ton of resources when you embed a dozen of them on a single page)
01:27:27 <JesusGod-Pope666> Well.... 25% is a lot of data both storage and to stream and mobiles still pay for data.
01:28:12 <tomman> If your images are too heavy, consider checking why they are too heavy before relying on new data compression algorithms
01:28:13 <JesusGod-Pope666> Anyway I will have to check if my picture app for web support the formats.
01:28:27 <JesusGod-Pope666> I have 80.000 pictures!!!!
01:28:30 <tomman> for example a common error is to embed a 40Mpix image when a 768p is sufficient
01:28:37 <JesusGod-Pope666> Sigh this guy.
01:28:47 <tomman> hey, I'm a software engineer too
01:28:56 <tomman> I've been at both sides of this fence
01:29:23 <tomman> and throwing tech at every problem is not always the best solution
01:29:46 <tomman> Anyway, time to recharge my batteries~~~
03:11:03 <JesusGod-Pope666> Hmmm
03:12:02 <JesusGod-Pope666> JXL > AVIF > JPG well.....
03:12:10 <JesusGod-Pope666> Not totally sure about.....
03:12:37 <JesusGod-Pope666> JXL and AVIF I have seen where it seems AVIF looks better.
03:13:06 <JesusGod-Pope666> And AVIF is this new video Tech as well AV1
03:13:17 <JesusGod-Pope666> Trying to see what is around.
03:13:47 <JesusGod-Pope666> Seems you can actually do really good on old JPG if you use the right compressor.
03:13:59 <JesusGod-Pope666> But I will have to test it.
03:14:08 <JesusGod-Pope666> At the moment I have 80.000 PNG files.
03:53:58 <JesusGod-Pope666> Overall it seems AVIF is the better supported. JXL is sadly not supported much.
03:54:22 <JesusGod-Pope666> But they are close so.... At least not to bad.
03:55:44 <JesusGod-Pope666> Seems like Google was dishonest when they promoted webp compared to jpg
03:56:40 <JesusGod-Pope666> But overall the AVIF or JXL is clearly the better leap.
03:57:13 <JesusGod-Pope666> But apparently with the right tools you should be able to get some really good jpg files as well.
13:15:04 <tomman> PNG to AVIF/JXL is a bad idea, the latter two are LOSSY formats
13:15:18 <tomman> Unless a large part of those 80000+ PNGs should have been JPEGs in first place
13:15:42 <tomman> Compatibility is the hill i'll die on~
13:20:08 <nsITobin> moonchild has a boner for those fucked over jpeg formats tomman
13:20:37 <tomman> JPEG-XL has its merits, but sadly it became a political mess as Google is more interested in pushing their homebrew crapola
13:20:54 <tomman> and Apple is interested in pushing the MPEG-LA patent encumbered crap as they are a member there
13:21:17 <tomman> but as for myself as a END USER, I could care less about formats and more about things I can render everywhere
13:21:45 <tomman> yes, bandwidth costs money, and so does storage, but think  5 seconds about it: not every photo has to be a 50MPix image out of your cellphone
13:22:03 <tomman> optimizing JPEGs/PNGs have become a lost art
13:22:17 <tomman> and of course the solution these days is "just throw more shiny new tech over it"
13:22:48 <tomman> also: image formats derived from MOTION VIDEO CODECS are almost always a bad idea, as they add complexity and MORE ATTACK SURFACE
13:22:57 <tomman> (Did we forgot the WebP mess from 2-3 years ago?)
13:23:48 <tomman> "80000 PNGs" => how many of those are poorly optimized? Also not every PNG should be a PNG
13:24:27 <tomman> if it is a photo, use JPEG. If it has 256 colors or less, consider using a GIF
13:25:16 <tomman> if lossless encoding is a must and the image needs all that color depth, then play with pngcrush
13:25:34 <nsITobin> nah every image should be png or apng
13:26:01 <nsITobin> also lossy png compression is a thing
13:26:25 <tomman> again, reminds me when JWZ converted every single animated GIF on his blog (and he _loves_ those) to MP4 video
13:26:30 <tomman> the bandwidth savings were amazing
13:26:37 <tomman> the performance murder on my end was also intense
13:26:53 <tomman> for a while, Flashblock of all things protected me since it could also block (and selectively enable) video
13:26:56 <tomman> but not anymore
13:27:00 <nsITobin> that isn't really a fair compairson
13:27:10 <nsITobin> jzw is wrong for doing it
13:27:18 <tomman> *plonk~*
13:27:20 <nsITobin> it should have been png
13:27:23 <nsITobin> and apng
13:27:42 <tomman> APNG sadly died a "Not Invented Here" death :/
13:28:05 <nsITobin> well i do have to face the fact that yet again my designated savior ain't gonna save me and in fact would hate me personally.. at some point one has to stop lol
13:28:18 <tomman> and of course WebM buried it
13:28:33 <nsITobin> webm should have been boycotted by mozilla and forks
13:28:36 <tomman> Problem is... there are two large consumers for animated images these days
13:28:58 <nsITobin> your dad and your grandma
13:29:00 <tomman> 1) simple animations (that many could argue that could be done with CSS, SVG, or... uuugh, JS - Flash is dead)
13:29:02 <nsITobin> right?
13:29:03 <tomman> 2) memelords
13:29:16 <tomman> 98% of the animated GIFs/WebMs are memes
13:29:29 <tomman> video clips, essentially
13:29:42 <tomman> And for those I don't have a clear solution, sorry
13:29:43 <nsITobin> retroactive memes are the worst cause they rewrite history and steal shit and call it meme culture
13:30:21 <tomman> APNG is too bloated for that, actual video formats would be suitable, but people say there is charm on the reduced bit depth of a GIF (which they stupidly replicate on WebM)
13:30:34 <nsITobin> ban memes
13:30:42 <tomman> as for myself, I hate 99% of Internet memes (or can't understand them because I don't consume US media)
13:30:43 <nsITobin> tho classic image macros can stay
13:31:20 <nsITobin> tomman: well who let these fools on OUR public war network?
13:31:28 <nsITobin> if you wanna be blunt
13:31:30 <nsITobin> lol
13:31:58 <tomman> could be worse
13:32:01 <tomman> could be Signalgate :D
13:32:52 <nsITobin> think about it.. the majority of modern internet usage is war or pronography.. if it isn't people just screwing it is people screwing with other people.
13:34:04 <tomman> Internet was fine when most people were busy with porn :D
13:34:08 <tomman> then... social networks happened
13:34:29 <nsITobin> and i am sure whatever it is one is interested in that is created also likely had some people get screwed in the course of it.. they turned the internet into this quote unquote REAL LIFE.. which I have always said it was
13:35:45 <nsITobin> social networks really were the turning point that sparked the masses to be constantly online before they were really ready for it
13:35:53 <nsITobin> and before i was ready for them..
13:36:02 <nsITobin> but that tidbit is specific to me tho
13:36:25 <nsITobin> then put the social network and lots of other paid services in their pocket
13:36:54 <nsITobin> so cell phones were not the causes merely the means.. social networks are the cause of why everyone feels a need to not just get online but fuck it up..
13:37:01 <nsITobin> so it can be theirs
13:37:05 <nsITobin> yep
13:37:09 <nsITobin> social networks kills us all
13:37:26 <nsITobin> and what are social networks written in or a lot of it written in.. javascript
13:37:30 <nsITobin> so javascript kills us all
13:37:34 <nsITobin> as i always said it would
13:37:46 <nsITobin> tomman: now that is figured out i can go forward ;)
14:40:37 <nsITobin> menuentry "Valve SteamOS (Redmond Edition)" {
14:40:38 <nsITobin>   chainloader (${root})/EFI/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi
14:40:38 <nsITobin> }
19:18:23 <JesusGod-Pope666> > tomman:
19:18:23 <JesusGod-Pope666> > 2025-05-01  03:15 (GMT+02:00)
19:18:23 <JesusGod-Pope666> > PNG to AVIF/JXL is a bad idea, the latter two are LOSSY formats
19:18:23 <JesusGod-Pope666> > Unless a large part of those 80000+ PNGs should have been JPEGs in first place
19:18:23 <JesusGod-Pope666> Because 40 GB is just so much better for the web then 4 GB. Sure sure. You people come up with all sorts of rubbish that I can't use for anything, what you can or cannot use for your purpose and think of this and that. Just drama women speaking of nothing.
19:18:57 <tomman> ...
19:19:10 <tomman> drop it down with the insults, please.
19:19:14 <JesusGod-Pope666> No no it is a bad idea you should clearly fill up your host with 40GB and not look into an option for getting them down to around 4 GB.
19:19:28 <JesusGod-Pope666> > tomman:
19:19:28 <JesusGod-Pope666> > 2025-05-01  09:19 (GMT+02:00)
19:19:28 <JesusGod-Pope666> > ...
19:19:28 <JesusGod-Pope666> > drop it down with the insults, please.
19:19:28 <JesusGod-Pope666> And drop your wasting time of bullshit.
19:19:43 <JesusGod-Pope666> It is draining.
19:20:04 <tomman> ah, bless /ignore~
19:20:19 <JesusGod-Pope666> Indeed, thanks.
19:20:34 <nsITobin> tomman: do a search for him and read his gab feed
19:20:38 <nsITobin> it is disgusting
19:20:42 <tomman> nah, no need
19:20:43 <nsITobin> he needs removed from here
19:20:52 <tomman> follow the teachings of JWZ: block early, block often~
19:20:58 <nsITobin> the big E word..
19:20:59 <JesusGod-Pope666> > nsITobin:
19:20:59 <JesusGod-Pope666> > 2025-05-01  09:20 (GMT+02:00)
19:20:59 <JesusGod-Pope666> > he needs removed from here
19:20:59 <JesusGod-Pope666> Someone invited the Devil in here?
19:24:49 <JesusGod-Pope666> I am looking at 2 options MozJPEG and AVIF
19:25:18 <JesusGod-Pope666> Trying to sort out how to batch sort it out and such.
19:34:54 <JesusGod-Pope666> > nsITobin:
19:34:54 <JesusGod-Pope666> > 2025-05-01  09:20 (GMT+02:00)
19:34:54 <JesusGod-Pope666> > he needs removed from here
19:34:54 <JesusGod-Pope666> Typically left brain censor everything one does not agree with. You people have ruined Linux and open source with your retarded opinions going for the ban hammer all the time of they do not agree with your mad ideas of the Devil and just be concerned about making good software for everybody with political rubbish forced into it like black lives matters, LGBT, sodomy, grooming of children and fe
19:34:54 <JesusGod-Pope666> minism and hate of God and what not of left brain gibberish of mad insanity.
19:35:32 <JesusGod-Pope666> I guess there was a max on the length :p
19:36:14 <nsITobin> ok so stop pasting lines.. we all have context and the channel is logged by at LEAST three bots
19:37:01 <JesusGod-Pope666> Was not pasting anything just writing the facts.
19:37:10 <nsITobin> you're spamming and being antagonistic.. citing god as your justification.. well big surprise.. in my world.. I am god.. and you are the current devil. Begone.
19:38:15 <JesusGod-Pope666> You sound like a Papist, is that a Greek word origin?
19:39:18 <JesusGod-Pope666> French, Latin then Greek.
19:39:48 <nsITobin> but not Klingon.. petaQ
21:29:41 <JesusGod-Pope666> Got Gimp 3 installed and the batch plugin
21:29:52 <JesusGod-Pope666> Took forever, or takes forever on this old slim client.
21:30:39 <JesusGod-Pope666> Gimp 3 had to minimum have windows 10..... Like I can't believe apps doing the exact same thing pretty much as 10-20 years ago needs 1000's as fast a computer.
21:36:53 <JesusGod-Pope666> Okay let's try this.....
21:37:02 <JesusGod-Pope666> Sigh
21:37:17 <JesusGod-Pope666> Should now it should fix 200 files to avif
21:37:42 <JesusGod-Pope666> But what a game of hoops and clicks and all sorts of nonsense.
21:37:59 <JesusGod-Pope666> Well it is working.....
21:50:41 <JesusGod-Pope666> Got something working here....
21:51:09 <JesusGod-Pope666> Sigh has to get windows 11, Gimp 3 installed and install a plugin and now it is I think fixing some files into avif.
21:51:27 <JesusGod-Pope666> Like the app that I though I would use don't support avif.
21:52:08 <JesusGod-Pope666> Would still like to try mozjpeg but all sorts of things one need to do and need to refix the USB add with more space for the system
21:52:16 <JesusGod-Pope666> Which will take a long time to do.
22:39:54 <Tobin|WebIRC> So .. Edge on Windows refuses to open any PWA windows without explorer running.
22:40:08 <Tobin|WebIRC> such horseshit. Anyway back to mah vidja james
22:40:12 <Tobin|WebIRC> :)
22:49:36 <JesusGod-Pope666> Yes it tends to be a thing of madness