01:08:31 <tomman> be careful browsing JWZ's website - he planted some anti-AI/LLM bot traps which includes a nasty coal burner / fork bomb traps
01:09:13 <tomman> and once you hit the trap, even the main website will render that... and your SeaMonkey will spend a while burning massive coal even if you closed the tab!
01:09:32 <tomman> ugh, maybe it's time to disown our god and creator :/
01:11:08 <tomman> apparently he is using a "zip bomb" variant of malformed images designed to trigger massive memory leaks and/or high CPU usage, as I'm seeing a ImgDecoder thread pegging a entire core
01:11:57 <tomman> (if you get hit by this, clear your cookies for jwz.org)
16:21:42 <gobi> It's pretty great that seamonkey still has new releases in 2025.
16:33:01 <frg_Away> gobi we try
16:33:13 <tomman> join the fight~
16:34:18 <gobi> what challenges do you face ?
16:34:39 <gobi> gecko engine is too old ?
16:36:28 <gobi> I also remember using k-meleon back in the day.
16:38:18 <frg_Away> Mostly outdated SpiderMonkey (js) and no support for new style system yet.
17:02:39 <njsg> tomman: that might actually make an amazing test case if one wants to design a way to detect that and avoid memory exhaustion or extensive CPU usage.
17:04:42 <njsg> gobi: I suppose right now: code changes that make backporting some features harder, and right now a bunch of JS features some frameworks have started to take for granted are still behind such hurdles. And that new style system is relevant because some CSS features have been implemented in it, so can't be simply backported. For example, discourse's "overflow: revert" inside <noscript>
17:05:44 <njsg> gobi: currently, to those looking for SM because of its extensibility, some of the already backported changes have broken extensions - I think mainly/mostly stuff that's easy to fix, but still requires fixing
17:06:25 <gobi> I am not a browser engineer, so its all greek to me.
17:06:29 <njsg> tomman: you could try subscribing via the feed and see if it shows the same issue.
17:06:40 <njsg> tomman: or, via netnews, gmane has it too.
17:07:37 <njsg> gobi: it goes have a greek localisation pack, yes :-P
17:08:07 <tomman> njsg: There is an easy way to trigger the trap, as it seems to work via specific cookies
17:08:42 <tomman> like, dick around JWZs site (not even the blog, but the rest of the site), and eventually you may find the trap click which will set the cookie and render the site unusable
17:09:08 <tomman> of course, if your bot doesn't process JS or images, it will still be served meanlingless text designed to poison LLMs
17:09:27 <tomman> the fork bombs and zip bombs are additional retaliation
17:10:26 <njsg> I hope he realizes that, if he manages to affect enough non-LLM users, it'll just lead to someone developing a way to detect that.
17:10:39 <njsg> also, what a marvellous argument to avoid JavaScript
17:11:05 <njsg> (without JS, it's a matter of detecting what needs to be ignored or avoided, with JS it's Turing-complete)
17:11:48 <tomman> it's JWZ, his answer to that will be *plonk*
17:12:16 <njsg> ok, I'll write it in Lucid Emacs Lisp instead.
20:16:10 <nsITobin> tomman: a shambling inhuman beast of a nightclub owner
20:16:23 <nsITobin> can't even keep the shitters flushing
20:16:28 <nsITobin> what did we expect to get from him?
20:16:37 <tomman> eh, weren't those the new water fountains?
20:16:59 <tomman> I knew the bathrooms were a odd place for a fountain :D
20:17:12 <nsITobin> isn't it liberal?
20:17:24 <nsITobin> whatever that even means at this point
20:19:47 <nsITobin> i mean his "blessing" would have been nice
20:19:50 <nsITobin> but really
20:20:25 <tomman> you can still bless his bottom line, rent the nightclub for a night or two :)
20:21:23 <nsITobin> well when this is all done and over with and end up not otherwise doomed we will do that..
20:22:06 <tomman> The other small problem is that he is in San Francisco, and I'm afraid the crazy is in the air and highly contagious
20:22:42 <nsITobin> the crazy jumpped parties long ago
20:23:02 <nsITobin> basically we are at the mercy of a planet full of morons and a few smart people who aren't in the right places
20:23:21 <nsITobin> it is a crazy/stupidity pandemic
20:23:28 <nsITobin> and its been raging since 2019
20:25:10 <nsITobin> but let's focus on positive stuff just to prove it still exists..
20:25:19 <nsITobin> if no other reason
21:59:33 <njsg> nsITobin: what *is* liberal?
22:00:38 <njsg> in the US these days, probably "someone the GOP despises", but yeah, even ignoring that, that term is a bit blurry in definition
22:42:34 <nsITobin> njsg: trump is the ultimate liberal liberally violates laws and the constitution liberally destroys large chunks of the federal government and very liberal in the rest taking the radical liberal step of swearing to Trump as their lord savior and commander.
22:44:04 <nsITobin> also liberal with tarrifs
22:44:07 <nsITobin> so yeah
22:44:59 <njsg> very liberal in arresting US senators, it seems.
22:56:28 <nsITobin> njsg: this is gonna be the stupidest civil war in world history.. absolutely moronic.. and even more destructive..
23:00:29 <njsg> don't say that
23:01:04 <njsg> otherwise someone at 1600 Penn. Av. might be tempted to try to come up with something even stupider
23:01:12 <nsITobin> njsg: I am not sure there is any way to avoud it without just acceeding to trump
23:04:43 <njsg> This is just... not wanting to drag this channel into Trump stuff, but... this current sequence of events really reaches high levels of insanity. The administration trying to portray things to their liking is one thing, now military deployment...
23:05:27 <nsITobin> well we can go to BinOC and discuss it.. and i do agree
23:06:38 <nsITobin> njsg: and yet if it goes without any swift remedy that prevents it again.. nexttime will be worse
23:06:52 <nsITobin> like say when 2028 rolls along
23:07:05 <njsg> at this rate it looks they're closer to making this tradition than to find a remedy
23:07:45 <nsITobin> assuming he doesn't go for broke by disolving the congress or getting congress to disolve its self..
23:08:21 <nsITobin> the longer trump is in power the more likely it is when he orders the military to carry out illegal orders they will do it either because they are loyal to trump himself or too scared to stand up
23:08:35 <nsITobin> but i can't say the words burning in my dna
23:08:46 <nsITobin> and psyche because it happens to be a federal crime
23:12:03 <nsITobin> njsg: the liberals the 2010s woke ones in tech the overpriveleged tumblr keyboard warriors with power i expect them to start sabotaging industry if any of them have a spine
23:12:45 <nsITobin> once it escilates a few more degrees
23:14:25 <nsITobin> njsg: last remark for now.. escilation to martial law IS a goal here by all indications
23:19:02 <nsITobin> know the shit part of it.. cloudflare google microsoft and apple facebook etc could make it insanely difficult for Trump to conduct anything that uses commerical solutions .. which given singal.. is common.. cause they dumb.. and the rest of the government the offline traditional means could be cut off as well.. This is how you stop trump and it would be just as legal as anything our president has done thus far.
23:20:39 <tomman> in other news, our favorite villain Clownflare was down for a while today
23:21:00 <tomman> sadly, the "we hate your web browser" service wasn't among the ones impacted by the downtime :/
23:21:41 <nsITobin> tomman: can you imagine people hating you personally for a web browser that gives everyone choice?
23:21:46 <nsITobin> I don't have to.
23:22:12 <nsITobin> basically i earned all the shit i got but after the fact.. deff not when it was happening originally
23:23:38 <njsg> nsITobin: it sure is, they seem fixated in portraying this as a solution to a problem
23:24:05 <nsITobin> Chromium Superfriends
23:24:15 <nsITobin> i am calling the new linux foundation fuckup
23:24:35 <njsg> a way to describe this is perhaps that common remark about "a solution in want of a problem", they'll apparently do a lot to say there is a problem
23:24:56 <njsg> let's just hope nobody tells Trump about the Space Command.
23:24:59 <nsITobin> njsg: i could die happy if Mozilla people sent kairo here to beg us to save them. but i know the odds of that happening are now nearly non-existant
23:25:27 <nsITobin> didn't trump create the space force?
23:27:02 <njsg> but at least I bet Canada might have an issue with such misuse of the Space Command
23:27:54 <njsg> nsITobin: ah, that's newer, I mean NORAD
23:28:10 <nsITobin> for my own well being i been limiting trump news.. besides all i need is a few core details and i can extrapolate pretty much every trump intention .. it is 90% pure alex jones circa 2018-2022
23:28:28 <nsITobin> njsg: OH the actual space command
23:28:30 <nsITobin> right ok
23:29:32 <nsITobin> the other 10% is project 2025
23:29:44 <nsITobin> people don't really understand the game at play
23:30:59 <nsITobin> either citing trump's isomorphic chess pretending to be 3d or just defaulting to orange man bad.. except BOTH those things were popularized by Alex Jones one in support of trump and the other in citing how bad the libs are
23:32:19 <nsITobin> this bullshit narrative is the foundation all opposition is still using.. meanwhile trump's next action will be an arrest and imprisonment of an offical likely a californa state official or prominate citizen
23:33:58 <nsITobin> pulling the trigger on imprisonment of a US Senator is not something that trump wants to deal with atm but a state official that is quite doable
23:34:22 <nsITobin> i mean who is gonna stop him
23:34:30 <nsITobin> and what is telling him no gonna accomplish
23:34:37 <njsg> nsITobin: the one you phone in by wardialing
23:34:46 <njsg> with an acoustic coupler
23:35:20 <nsITobin> that's how you run a war network!
23:36:10 <njsg> hold on, need to focus on reading something
23:36:20 <njsg> I hate non-chronological order :-P
23:43:21 <nsITobin> njsg: time is an illusion
23:46:32 <njsg> who are you, Christopher Lloyd?
23:53:43 <nsITobin> do i look like a klingon taxi mechanic scientist?
23:53:57 <nsITobin> i would also add cartoon but.. in my case...
23:55:59 <nsITobin> bIDum 'e' yImev!