00:09:55 or i can always just put another glob of delta 8 thc in my vape and puff the future away some more.. seems to work out so far.. except for my moral 00:10:59 well until texas law makers take it away from me 10:09:43 nsITobin the refactorings were not all bad. 2.53 is much more responsive than 2.49.5. Mail part is better and more stable too. Build system is troo complex by a mile but things like l10n merges are much better too. The problem with later releases is fetaures taken out rustification new bloat and some refavctorings which just change code for the sake of code change. The 10th ui revamp does... 10:09:45 ...not help either. I would very much to compete but I am a realist and just do what I can to keep it afloat. This is basically already a full time job besides the real full time job and other things. 10:22:16 what stops buc's iso8601 dates/times patch(es) from getting into regular SM builds of mail and history? 10:29:59 It works but would need a total rebase later when we put more prerequisite stuff in. I don't want to do this again for a minor feature. I will look into it again when I finished rebasing the current such ones in the wip branch. The intl code there is much more advanced already. 10:32:56 IOW, easier to do by waiting a while longer? 10:33:07 frg_away, for what it's worth ..... when you do this "total rebase", can you make it in SM Version 3.0.1 or some such? ;-) 10:33:09 How much longer can you make the Version number than a sub.sub.sub?? ;-) 10:35:14 infinite 2.53.99999 :) Thought about 2.57 when the wip branch is ready but this wouldbreak extensions again and then we are one step back again. The current numbers are basically meaningless. Code is more ór less at 60 minus a few things in network and serviceworkers and has many enhancements from later releases in. 10:44:14 You're the Boss, FRG ;-P Just, at times, I think that STILL being Ver 2 ..... THIS must be old program. ;-) 10:44:52 Maniel IanN is the boss but we are usually on the sasme page :) 10:46:05 "sasme"?? Is that, sort of like ... "ME! I'm in the SAS!!" ;-P 10:46:16 We now could keep it internally at 2.53 and just use an arbitrary number for display. Use this feaure for the prereleases. 10:47:02 I should move rhe laptop forward a bit so less typos :) 10:57:04 Hmm! So you're having the opposite problem to me!. 10:57:06 Back in January, I somehow corrupted the Win7 on my Laptop (When I booted into Win7, the computer wanted to delete every file in Win7) 10:57:07 So I've been using my Win-11 Desktop (haven't gotten around to installing MageiaLinux on it, yet) on the little Dinner-tray-type table I had the Laptop on 10:57:09 And I was just using the old "broken" Laptop as a weight on the Win-11 Desktop computers stand to stop it falling over. 10:57:10 But then I thought .... The Laptop still booted up into MageiaLinux no problems so why don't I continue using it for that. 10:57:12 But then I have to move the Laptop towards me so that I can actually open it without its lid/screen knocking the Desktop computer off the table. 10:57:13 One day, I'll sort things out! ;-) 11:11:14 frg_Away: thx for reply 11:12:46 a-865 I know it is satisfactory but I already spend most of my free time playing backport catch up. Not enough people around. I would ratther enhance the suite components. 11:15:12 buc seems to have been away since b4 2.53.21 release. I emailed him last week, but no reply. :( 11:16:16 I wonder if buc is Ukrainian resident? 11:18:16 +0300 is buc's timezone 11:18:24 and Ukraine 11:19:47 a-865 as far as I know located in dictatorland in the east. 11:30:16 russialand, or some peripheral state? 11:31:15 rough places all 11:41:19 .ru 11:42:20 makes sense. Hope he's alive and not in jail. 11:43:47 Onew reason I don't discuss politics and he too regardless of which side he is on. I don't know and don't ask. 16:36:40 So, I upgraded from seamonkey 2.53.14 to seamonkey-bin 2.53.20, and when I restarted, it showed a restore session page, but when I click, it fails. with: 16:36:42 defaults/preferences/bprivacyprefs.js:4: prefs parse error: unexpected escape sequence character after '\' 16:37:26 I find this js file in: PROFILE_DIR/extensions/{d40f5e7b-d2cf-4856-b441-cc613eeffbe3}.xpi 16:37:39 How can I tell which extension this is? 16:37:39 that file is not provided by SeaMonkey.. seems like.. yeah an extension 16:37:46 checking to see what that guid resolves to 16:37:47 stand by 16:38:04 BetterPrivacy 16:38:44 johnea: contact the extension developer for support for extensions especially those classed as privacy or security is the best option 16:39:00 Thaks nsITobin! How can I start while disabling that? 16:39:16 well you can always manually delete the xpi from your profile 16:39:43 else if the UX works then do it in about:addons or safemode disabling add-ons 16:39:47 there are a nunber of ways 16:40:29 OK, I have a profile backup, so I'll see if I can do it in the UX prior to clicking "restore sessions", if that doesn't work, I'll proceed with the deletion. Thank You! 16:40:35 if you are cool with just deleting files because someone on the internet told you to deleting the xpi or moving it elsewhere for later is easiest the application will deal fine .. then if you get a fix or fix it drag it back in 16:41:09 OK, I'll just delete it and try again... 16:41:13 just quit first 16:41:28 may wanna keep the xpi in case it isn't easily found today 16:41:38 more classical mozilla stuff drops off the internet every day 16:41:45 I have a complete copy of the profile dir 16:41:59 then this is no big deal for you cool :) 16:45:36 pref Prser got updated some time ago. Probably an uneven number of quotes or a \ or invalid escape char somewhere- Should be an easy fix. 16:46:13 if the dev is still around i'd ping em as well see if they still care 16:46:48 johnea: feel like going old school and ripping it apart and fixing the prefs js file? 16:48:53 Well, that may be the next step 8-/ I deleted the xpi, and now session restore doesn't leave a command line error, but I get one window with one untitled tab, instead of my 3 windows with ~200 tabs 8-( 16:49:10 due to SeaMonkey 2.53's development cycle it may be a good idea to treat point releases as major releases and upgrade along the line if you fall behind on updating to catch these issues earlier.. cause 14 to 20 is a lot of patches that frg had to process and adapt 16:50:30 johnea: session store in seamonkey is in dire need of some love though it has improved slightly in the 2.53 series vs 2.49 and Borealis 16:50:30 My native .14 won't work with newly updated libs, so I installed a binary package from arch AUR which , I guess, is statically linked so as not to depend on the system libs. That's what gave me the .14 to .20 update... 16:51:26 ah 16:51:29 I might be able to use an older version of the AUR binary package, that is the .14 version 16:52:03 Not sure if that will work though 16:52:24 it isn't actually possible to build mozilla as a static linked thing.. but i bet the aur just uses intree libs where possible but not every systemlib has an intree version 16:52:43 used to be in the xpfe era 16:52:54 early 1.9 had SOME capability of it 16:53:16 but mozilla was all about libxul megalib by then but that is still shared just rolled in 16:53:39 Interesting, I'll have to dig into the package and see what's there. I can understand some enforcement of newer SSL algorithms, but completely shutting out older versions runs into the wall of reality. Some older appliances eetc are just not upgradable, or easily replaced 16:54:35 I want the window that says: ARE YOU SURE?, instead of just refusing to talk to older algorithms 16:55:12 My (limited) understanding is that this is due to the ssl install more than individual applications 16:55:52 If I could access my older gear, I wouldn't be so tied to an older version of the browser 16:56:11 seamonkey uses nss for that and its intree nss works just fine just it won't talk to system nss 16:56:15 But... I do prefer the seamonkey UX instaed of the ever evolving firefox, and worse... 16:56:26 if intree is used 16:56:59 If static is not possible, I bet it is the intree 16:57:22 johnea: i could fork modern firefox and tear it apart and make it basically Firefox 2/3 in layout and features .. aesthetically is a lot harder since the toolkit styling is gutted and has no barring on html elements and documents 16:57:39 but that isn't totally impossible either 16:57:52 just a lot harder because html isn't fuckin xul 16:57:59 and wasn't meant for desktop applications 16:58:18 it is meant for hypertext documents 16:58:52 Well, as is often cited, moz does seem to have lost the sauce. I'm cry over my tbird upgrade too 16:59:36 They just seem determined to f_ck with the UX with every release. I'm guessing it's a windows thing. You can never just leave the UX as it is, because, need new look 17:00:01 the big barriers in modern mozilla is its severe lack of Mozilla in it.. that coupled with all the next level telemetry tendrals and the literal dozens of components literally no firefox user ever asked for .. except like one.. and they fucked that up and removed it.. that being pwa which mozilla invented by way of Mozilla Prism site specific browser 17:00:02 ... 17:00:18 sorry i get very worked up when I am doing anything remotely mozilla 17:00:32 its been a series of events over a span of time.. to be sure! 17:02:32 also the fact that the era of codebases to understand the transition from xbl to xul webcomponents to html webcomponents and xul to html in general the big pushes live in an era i have termed the wasteland from which no person can compile.. unless they provide the correct period rust/clang toolchain 17:02:54 One thought about recovering my 3 windows and 200 tab session: If I allow seamonkey to start, without restoring my session, is there some way to copy my old session in after the fact? 17:03:31 from 68 to at least 91 cannot be compiled with today's toolchain service or current day distro toolchains.. 17:03:49 After removing that xpi, it does start, and makes no errors, but my session is lost 17:03:57 and that is where the big pushes regarding xul xbl js components etc all happened 17:05:01 rust does seem akin to python in the sense that it's versions are not compatible. I'm not a user though, just an observer 17:05:40 johnea: Netscape created the Bookmark.. SeaMonkey.. unlike firefox is a direct decendant of netscape.. I say use bookmarks for persistance and consider session as volitile .. because that is how the web was designed.. even modern firefox session restore fucks up occasionally.. and seamonkey's is far less advanced than its reletive firefox version.. it just needs some love 17:07:02 thunderbird .. though you can hardly tell today is also a direct decendant of netscape communicator in its mailnews ux 17:07:11 firefox is the outlier 17:07:30 it was not dirived from navigator.xul and indeed its stuff replaced xpfe's superior technology 17:07:31 In this case though, there are multiple windows, with many tabs, I don't think there's a bookmark way to capture that. Is it viable to copy in the session* files to try to recover it? 17:07:55 you can try but it may invalidate 17:08:35 It starts now without error after I select "restore sessions", but it doesn't actually restore 17:08:56 Is there some way to get additional debugoutput? 17:09:01 session store is only a hack anyway the web is supposed to be stateless 17:10:28 johnea: no it is lost just have to rebuild your session and perhaps consider altering your browser habits.. session restore is nice and all but really .. why do you have so many windows and tabs that must be persisted indefinitly 17:10:36 i think that may be an incorrect usage pattern 17:10:39 I'm not really saving any state at the sites themselves, just the tabs pointing to many sites 17:10:45 despite its near universal employment 17:11:14 well you CAN open all bookmarks of a specific folder 17:11:35 .. i think firefox at one point had a way to save all tabs to bookmarks.. i wonder if that made it in the places work 17:11:37 frg_Away? 17:11:53 Because I don't want to open 200 tabs everytime I start 8-) I read a lot of news site, keep tabs open for many sites that I routinely access 17:12:14 your electricity must be high 17:12:22 that is a lot of wasted cpu time 17:12:26 and energy 17:12:29 I don't ever restart seamonkey, I leave it running. But on system upgrade, and reboot, it had to restart 17:12:42 those sites churn and eat and leech cpu and power for no real reason 17:12:43 I have several computers running 24/7 here 17:12:54 desktop workstation is just one of them 17:13:30 I have js disabled, and no cookies allowed in seamonkey. I hope the no js helps prevent dynamic operation 17:14:12 johnea: if you have JS disabled.. the hell you need a new version of anything for.. nearly every exploitable exploit is js initiated 17:15:12 save the occasional css animation or decoder exploit 17:15:23 and parser exploits 17:16:03 other applications need newer version. Plus, even in firefox, which I run with js and cookies, and other newer dom stuff that I don't understand, a lot of websites just won't work. I have to update ff. 17:16:36 johnea: if you were to create a new Profile, quit, then copy (your old) sessionstore.json into it, fire it up, & Go | Restore Previous Session 17:16:41 isn't that going to work? 17:16:48 they already tried it 17:16:54 and assuming it does, take things from there 17:17:01 frg: did session store's format get changed between 14 and 20? 17:17:21 the schema updated or something 17:17:25 oh, & in that new Profile, set it (ahead of time) to only restore tabs 'on demand' 17:17:29 unless 17:17:37 which should be the default setting, btw, imho ;-) 17:17:53 sessionstore is fragile. All in sessionstore.json but I took some later code and it might have made the old store incompatible. I don't rely on it in any case. One crash and it will be corrupt. Bookmark this gorup of tabs should work and I set to autoexport places and use the bookmakrs.html as homepage. Much more conveniant for me. 17:17:53 therube: a new profile won't get their old session back it already rejected it 17:18:55 Well, just copying in the sessionstore.json did allow it to start with old tabs! 17:19:08 i thought you said you tried it 17:19:12 You can start SeaMonkey with the console to see errors early. better privacy might need an update. check nsIPrefBranch2 and just change to nsIPrefBranch. 17:19:16 hmm... i'm a session restorer person & thankfully it's been solid enough for me (knock on wood) 17:19:43 :-) 17:19:49 therube: i use it too by default but i also curb my habits to basically one or two windows with less than a dozen tabs.. i close tabs when I am done with em 17:20:13 https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2025-06-15#Extensions_Tracking 17:20:57 therube sessionstore needs a do over badly. Which means take most of the Firefox code. It was not really updated in years. 17:20:58 why did prefs need altered? 17:21:08 you aren't gonna backport static prefs are you? 17:21:30 No but some enhancements including a new parser got it. 17:22:03 One of the refactorings which made the code better. 17:22:14 and faster 17:22:26 and more efficient with better access to the internet? 17:22:28 nsITobin: No, I copyed the WHOLE profile, then deleted the problematic extension. I showed the restore button after that, but didn't restore. I'm not sure why copying just the sessionstore.json worked, since it started with that file after the complete copy 17:22:39 that's what mozilla did LOL 17:22:43 but i joke 17:23:06 johnea: so it was the extension failing that hiccuped session restore and corrupted it 17:23:12 seems like anyway 17:23:35 if your old profile just upgraded properly just now 17:24:24 I still agrue the code doesn't need to be faster it needs to be slimmer 17:25:04 i want things to take time throw up an hour glass or whatever .. i want an action to feel it has a response not a disconnected async control which MAYBE works 17:25:08 I find static prefs useless. You could use a file with defines and be done with it. Witch it basically is just more complicated. Ok you need a js interface but even this should be doable. 17:25:18 ^Which 17:25:40 nsITobin The code is slimmer 17:43:55 So, It seems nothing ever goes completely smoothly 8-/ I'm getting the "I understand the risks" link, but the twisty doesn't do anything. I can't open the page to accept the site 17:44:13 The cert is self signed 17:46:02 I see my server in the manage certificates dialog, with permanent exceptions for the self signed cert. But the "I understand the risks" dialog won't come up. Weird... 17:49:32 After a number of refreshes, and changing to the IP address instead of domain name, I'm getting: Error code: SSL_ERROR_UNSUPPORTED_VERSION 17:49:42 Frikin' unsupported version 8-/ 17:50:15 It starts to look like I'm going to need to add the MinimumVer to openssl.cnf 18:08:06 tls 1.0 and 1.1 is now unchecked by default. Can be switched back on in prefs 18:10:01 frg_Away, Thanks for that! I guess the upgrade turned those back off. Turning them on fixed the issue@ 18:56:47 WTF? Rumors about my disappearance are too exaggerated. 18:57:21 well no one has heard from justoff in like four years but I am glad you are fine 18:57:23 you safe? 18:57:45 buc: 19:01:21 nsITobin: Justoff afaik is at other side. 19:03:46 i hope not 19:05:38 nsITobin: I meant from the other side of the confrontation line. 19:14:14 buc thought so :) 19:22:36 OK, next problem 8-/ BTW, thank you for helping with things that are only my problem! Without IRC, I'm not sure how I'd ever solve these things. 19:22:45 NoScript is disabling all js on all sites 19:22:59 The usual popup that used to comeup no longer does. 19:23:14 When I click "check for updates" in the extension manager, nothing happens. 19:23:30 Is noscript still a valid extension for seamonkey? 19:23:49 * nsITobin says nothing 19:23:57 8-) 19:25:13 Shit! Just looked maillogs on my email server - a-865 really sent me a letter, and it fell into the mailbox. Apparently I accidentally deleted it when I cleaned spam. Sorry! 19:28:36 With web search going down the frikin tubes, this is only going to get worse 8-/ 19:29:48 I use 5.1.9. Still works for me but I have it in the statusbar and allow as needed. The popup was and is quirky I think. 19:29:57 NoScript faq says plugin needs to be "reinstalled" after each upgrade. But I installed it via extension manager, I don't think I have the XPCOM or other ability to reinstall... 19:30:38 * nsITobin continues not to say things 19:30:46 frg_Away, I have 5.0.3 19:30:57 That is too old by a mile 19:31:14 noscript.net still has 5.1.9 19:34:12 Thanks frg_Away! Installed 5.1.9 and I'm (again) back in action... 19:58:32 I wish someone would fork it and clean it up. Did some cleanups myself but only minor stuff. 21:31:26 buc: I was worried you got drafted into Ukraine war or something 21:46:40 a-865: answer in private (f*cking politics) 21:49:11 * buc forgot to build the Linux generic package. There are signs of aging and forgetfulness. :) 23:15:17 hi Sompi 23:36:03 a-865: Done: https://buc.fedorapeople.org/seamonkey/download/seamonkey-2.53.21-1.tar.xz 23:36:34 hi the buc 23:36:58 I am gonna have to fork the C version of RPM for my distro 23:37:35 Why? 23:37:54 but learning ground level rpm and the internals of building a system has been amazing 23:38:14 oh i uhh disagree with the C++ version because it will just be rust in the end 23:38:51 so gonna fork 4.18 and backport from 4.19+ to also avoid cmake and maintain the autotools build system 23:39:13 a great project to learn non-mozilla autohell and C the uhh C 23:39:47 i haven't decided on an rpm frontend yet 23:39:59 but likely will be a modified version of DNF5 before rust gets it 23:40:11 because well C++ > Python3 23:40:17 but C > C++ 23:40:48 extending microdnf is an option as well 23:42:29 Well, such kinds of forks can be live for some time anyway. 23:44:04 i am aware of the cross-community effort to rid the ecosystem of rpm forks and I agree with it but the C++ makes rpm more of a moving target and I know for sure rust is the end goal.. I simply cannot allow it without trying.. 23:44:07 oh 23:44:11 cya buc 23:45:55 and you know what? my original strategy was best.. don't agrue with rust.. just fork away from it. 23:46:02 if possible 23:46:32 and again that is so supremely hard for me.. cause I enjoy arguing 23:56:36 nsITobin: mom & dad did it all the time in my teen years, so it's hard for me to avoid doing it myself :p 23:58:18 a-865: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ