:-)

Tobin: good one, I think :-)

Good morning

nsITobin hi

hi nsITobin

gogs is pretty nice as a basic forge not as github/gitlab parity as gitea is but it is also more focused on core functionality and has a less radical refactors

nsITobin: so if you apply the gitlab central queue --enable-thunderbird-rust is now an option for the suite and it is enabled by default.

WG9s: awesome

nsITobin: issue is if mozilla vendors a later version of rust before the TB folk snc up my nightly builds will fail

sucks we can't have a few tinderbox machines like the old days

my theory is the retired it because it was redundant the tree is always a dumpster fire now

its a bs theory but it makes me feel better

we used to also have a rule you can't check in on red in tinderbox so did not have to have this tree is closed

people used to play by the rules

oh cool gogs json dumps the database

also had tindrbos builds for the ancillary not really supported projects and if your patch turned it red you were obligated to try to help the team on that project figure out how to fix their build

that was always how I treated pull requests

you break it.. one don't break it.. two.. fix it.. also three please don't make a mess of the commit history doing it

so many people resisted

i seem to remeber having to do that for Camino (which was the macOS browser before FIrefox worked on macOS)

I remember camino

firefox ate it

Firefox as a project was NEVER intended for Macintosh

yes but at the time was a not really supported Camino which ws FIrefox on macOS and if your patch broke camino you were obligated to help fix the issue

according to the original readme for the project.. Firefox was designed and develop for Windows and Unix desktops to avoid all the "whore" features in netscape communicator

I guess those times are behind us

some are some aren't some just need a few patches ;)

and camino was the premere Mozilla browser on Macintosh classy and designed specifically to take advantage of the seemless ui and features.

but on a similar not i think if your stupid TB patch breaks suite builds you should be obligated to help fix

absolutely or if the area is a specialist or edge case area be on hand to help the specialist

or coordinate before hand to make sure the landing is good

These are all things I learned from Mozilla which is why it is so hard to see Mozilla not do these things and even react badly or lash out when people bring it up, such as my self.

but hard to enforce since no more tinderbos and no comm-central suite builds in treeherder

nsITobin: I somehow went from invited to mozilla summits to be banned for like from bugzilla because of complaining about such things.

life not like

Well last I knew Thunderbird planned to after the suite was gone to start merging all comm components into thunderbird appcore .. I got the feeling a few wouldn't mind a cc suite reviving if it intended to keep up and go the distrance but the rest seem neural to seeing it as a blocker

but that was the feel what they actually think or would say if you asked them.. no clue

i would actually prefer they did that so that their stupidity did not break suite builds

WG9s: where you gonna get the mailnews core lol

they will merge it with mail total integration

forking it

forking Mozilla code.. who'd be silly enough to attempt that..

and doing are own development

not mozilla

TRUE

ABSOLUTELY TRUE

forking the comm-central part which mozilla does not support at all

depends on your definition of Mozilla

as an entity

or set of entities

to me .. its all the corp

at this point MZLA and the foundation or shells

are*

legal ones but shells none the less

200 thousand dollars of half a million for development? I don't see it for one and two millions of dollars isn't enough to deal with XUL?

maybe i should get those Godzilla people who sued them back in the day to re-institute the complaint

isn't Godzilla public domain yet?

I know what is tho.. Infengement Free Cartoon Mouse on a boat!

Godzilla might not be public domain in Japan until 2055 or later for the original version of the character.

trademark people on Godzilla included everything <blah>zilla in the trademark and somehow gave Mozilla a special exemption

is that why Mozilla was all don't call your stuff -zilla?

exactly

they had a special exepmtion

for mozilla and chatzilla

green mozilla would melt their special exemption and flip you off

wonder how Filezilla faired

did it get threatened too

someone in the godzilla frnt eveidently preferred the Mozilla browser so they got an exepmtion

eh forget godzilla anyway.. Gamera is really neat

Filezilla not sure that Much

I hear he is filled with turtle meat

i always liked Reptilicus

sputting out all that green glop

spurting out all that green glop

likely does both

lol

nsITobin: I am old so remember this crap

I am 74

It's good stuff to watch

So remeber things that pissed me off in the past

?

about things mozilla did in the past to piss me off that not sure you might be ounger

younger

Hloe needs a turtle and an oversized lizard if he can have King Gidorah :)

I am younger but I been fixated for .. well shit half my life now

mozilla was created in 1998.. its 2024 i was born in 1985

so 35 years younger than i am - youtu.be/rGEIMCWob3U

I feel old a lot especially with the sciatica, joints hurt more than ever.. bending wrong screws me over for at LEAST 2 days ain't got no hair..

nowadays even the IRC is too hard for diginatives

a lot of my favorite television and movies are before I was born of course i have lots of stuff I like from my time as a living being but there is just so much out there that I never got to be apart of or really witness that those just slightly younger than I have absolutely zero intrest in or think it is dumb

i feel sometimes like an aboration of the last generation still capable of giving a crap

i remeber when firefos was first released and it took fire because people were scared by the internet but had a family member who was their computer expert all of whom used Linux at the time and steered them to Firefox

and oddly the antitheses of what it is now. The Firefox UI was platform agnostic and not trying to fit in with the OS idea of what an app ui should be.

so if you went form Linux to windows to mac the firefox UI was the same

I go for more of a balance by default OS style, fixes if they need it, add a touch of personalized flare.. done.. Otherwise I prefer full skinning that can be changed.

WG9s: no.. sorry i don't mean to contradict you but I am gonna contradict you so Firefox UI looks like Gnome/Apple on every platform

except that didn't actually contradict you so nevermind

.. I need a soda

originally looked like pre gnome unix.linus on all platforms when first released

the *stripe skins

no i am gonna confuse my self .. going to look instead

talking about Firefox 1.0

nsITobin: so pinstripe? i remember that was trying to get an apple compliant HID thing

I think Firefox as originaly envisioned hit its peak at Firefox 2.. cause Firefox 3 was when changes started happening

I started using Firefox in 2005 and back then it was a great browser

the style, the UI, the features.. a real successor to XPFE design and features

and i think they went off the rails when Windows came up with Aero

I also started using Ubuntu in that year, and with those old versions of Ubuntu everything just works

WG9s: I only stopped using Aero styles 2 years ago

Then came Unity desktop

what does that tell you

they did go overboard

not that i did not get Firefox to work correctly with Aero with multiple monitors when others could not but thought the whole idea was lame

but it really became an issue when they started drawing parts of the aero UI like the titlebar and frame them selves THAT is when it became a technical burdon

so I am the idiot who got Firefox 4 to work correctly with Windwos Aero

they had 2 stupid invalid assumptions. one was if multiple monitors they were identical aspect ratio and resolution and second was that the taskbar was on the primary monitor.

to be fair.. linux window managers of the era had the same issues.. some still do..

I was at a mozilla summit and had to skip one afternnon's sessions to fix this stupidity.

but on Windows this shouldn't have been an issue.. I been successfully multi-monitor since win2k

its solid

well until windows 8

well the firefox 4 crap was scheduled to be announced at this Mozilla summit and it did not work with multiple monitors under Windows without my effort

the ONE thing I wanted from that redesign I never got

I had to skip sessions to get it working in time for the announcement

I wanted that cool ass glowing progress line across the top of the tab

i know that isn't anything LIKE what you are describing but i was following it very closely at the time

hell I was likely here

reaslly!

still trying to get --disable-mailnews and a splash screen I'm sure

right njsg

well silly me had two monitors at work and not same aspect ratio or resolution so what was going to be released did not work for me.

Do you remember 64bit during 1.9.x?

My department would not pay for a second monitor for me but the IT guy for the compaly CEO got me a seclnd one and then one 4:3 and one 16:9 and not same rosolution and i was showing it to a friend at work and e pointed out that it would not work if you moved the taskbar to the second screen and had it had screen bottom

that is such a strange result

nsTobin

why would the taskbar have anything to do with window placement?

nsITobin: I only remeber Windows 64-bit to be shit

back in the XP days

Especially seeing as the Windows shell was optional .. technically still is but good luck accessing anything they moved to metro

nsITobin: hs to do wth taskbar autohide working

with original Firefox code only worked if taskbar was on the primary monitor

is all stupidity with the windos compositor. was really supid talkbar autohiding depended on not using the bottom row of pixes to display the windows but instead of restrng the row for the compositor required every app tto reserve that row of pixes themselves and Firefox only did it on the primay monitor becuase they eienot relaize you could move the taskbar to the secondary monitor

but should have all been taken pair of by the windows os and not up to every app having to do this

wait.. Mozilla did not know you could move the windows taskbar

they knew you could move it but for some odd reason thought it still had to be on the primay monitor

i mean assuming hardly anyone would move it off the main screen sure that sounds like mozilla but not knowing the basic operation of an OS target?

but the real issue was the windows os and compositor should have been reserving the bottom row of pixels just in case and reporteing one row short to the app when reporting the resolution

expecting hundereds of applications to reserve the bottom row of pixels for this insted of reseveing it in the compositor was just lame

at the time hardly anyone had 2 monitors and this was before the Firefox version was released

release was going to take place at the SUmmit

that is a TERRIBLE idea

so i was frantically trying to fix this so when release announced it would actually work correctly

was what i consider a windows but but trying to work around so the relase would not look bad

if needed to reserve bottom row of pixes for autohide then the compositor should have prerted the verticl size wone row of pixels shors so apps sould work as normal and not each have to do this

Do you know who made the decision to focus primarily on firefox?

I don;t remember

I can also tell you that shat was FIrfox would have become what is no Chrome had not the powere that be pissed of Ben Goodger chief Firefox engineer who got pissed off and left to go to Google and become chief engineer on Chrome

he got pissed becuuse fo what happened when they wanted to demote TB to a less supported app

what we need is a way to remove Mozilla away from San Francisco/SV

far, far away

i may have posted this befor but backin the day only popel working on TB were chief engineer Scott McGreggor, mailnews guy Dave MOse Icons form Arvid and me doing both UI work and testing of IMAP on other mail servers becuase the then current Mozilla code only worked on one server implemetation and did not actully follow the standard.

anyway mozilla folk decided they wanted not to give as muxh support to TB and gave us 3 options to selct between as to how the ongoing support would work. I don;t rember what the three choices were and which one we cose but importnat thing was we uninimously shose one of the three.

and they came back with tough shit we had already chosen and you did not pick the right one. so ended up with Scott leaving almost immediately and his best buddy Ben Goodger leaving not to long after.

WG9s: besides devtools what would you need in this component that would help you test the firefox rendering engine?

nsITobin: I would need time to think on that

The ability to spawn any arbitrary chrome address would be nice i bet

but if back in the day the mozilla folk had kept their word and abided by our TB vote Ben might have never left and devleoped what became chrome for Mozilla

things would have been much different

The whatwg may never have been formed.. Mozilla might still be an application framework and internet enabled platform.. webidl may never have happened.. and XML and namespaces would have won out vs sloppy quirks and living quriks and standards..

those are just the ones I can think of instantly

yes but this was mozilla seaid you have a vote and then renegged on abiding by it. sounds kind of TRumpish. must have thought it was rigged

and things would be more balanced between markup style and script

but that was definitly a rigged election.

was mozilla does not care about the results we had already selected on of the three you surprised us by picking one of the others so are ignoring your choice.

Oh i am sure the decision was made with the best telemetry at the time WG9s

"rigged election"

did someone called me?

to be fair, election fraud is a time honored institution.. it's hardly unique or partisan

of a practice*

hmm maybe that is why frg_Away is so trying to disable telemetry in seamonkey

obviously in execution

Mozilla's stance on telemetry is "disable it and you might as well not exist anymore"

this is why they killed ALSA support on Linux, despite the not so insignificant number of users out there with Pulseaudio problems

first and foremost.. telemetry slows the fuckin code down and makes everything overcomplicated.. They just exchanged seamonkey and thunderbird by doubling the code size with telemetry

but fi they had just come and said this si what we decided rahther tha giving us a sham coice that they were going to ignore the results of would have gone over so much better

...but most of those users either opted out, or are using distro builds where the telemetry has been disabled

if we had know everything then.. I mean trends were forming abuses made features lied about dropped changed I do remember that to an extent

saying we will do whichever of these yhree you pick we will do and then saying sorry you voted for the wrong one is just wrong

its so common an experience for me personally i can't agree more

if you sonder I am thinking perhaps i can get ahold of Scott to get his perspective. and perhaps even Ben

One of these days one of us needs to publish a book.. Mozilla from the comm perspective

The biggest problem is: lets remove feature x because only 1% use it.

I was the cause of one of Ben's signature amn Damn Damn back in the cvs days

WG9s: you told me its a good story, feel free to tell it again for the logbot soon

if not now

:)

i was just getting into trying to help and not usre how to do bugzilla but Ben adding some code that broke about:source so that it crashed

so i send him a fix then he tried to order a new dell workstation and did not print the repeipt before trying to same it and the broswer carshed

and nest thing hi did was read hisw emailand first one there was my fix for the issue. that is why it got posted with the Damn Damn damn comment

I am mister Damn Eamn Damn

I am mister Damn Damn Damn

ye

switching to winders

I could tell it better if i could type better point was he did not first print the receipt then tried to save the page so browser crashed and he had no way to either save nor print the receipt.

I guess if just repeating it here for the log not impotant that TObin is gone

so Ben's frustration as less that tyring to save before printing resulted in no receipt. It was that if he had done his email before buying the workstation the very first one would have had the fix for the save page as crash.

He sent me a very nice email about this that is stupidly seem to have lost

He sent me a very nice email about this that I stupidly seem to have lost

ah backnow so you need ot look at the log to get the rest of the story

the reeeeest.. of the story

lol

nsITobin: but you did say i had told it already

it just made me think of en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rest_of_the_Story

caught up

oh ok well so Ben's frustration at trying to save before printing resulted in no receipt. It was that if he had done his email before buying the workstation the very first one would have had the fix for the save page as crash.

is kind of most significant thing you missed

yeah

He sent me a very nice email about this that I stupidly seem to have lost

should have printed it out and framed it .. along with Damn Damn Damn

exactly

on dot matrix

:P

ns is that a reference to old printers or to the movie SpaceBalls

frg_Away: do you have all the patches I been linking as I been completing them or would you like me to zip them up and email them to you with an email address you will tell me lol

WG9s: it can work for both

my luggage combo is 12345

that one is just to the movie

Mozilla when the google money finally dries up for good.

prove me wrong

movie is absolute god

gold*

of course aside from the self destruct scene this is my favorite scene in the movie youtube.com/watch?v=TWmVlgIR2HA

perhaps in trying to find a solution to issues we should comb the desert!

of course that one we all saw coming.

did you ever wath Red Dwarf?

yep

so THis is not a drill this is a drill?

you know the guy who says "we ain't found shit" is tim russ better known as Tuvok from Star Trek Voyager

I have a Smeg Off Red Dwarf coffee mug

funny thing was probably abit later than should have been was when stat trek was up to voyager that they made fun of.

and vise versa but i do think was a reference to jupiter mining company was maybe even in TNG so perhaps before voyager

but definitely made fun of the holgrahic doctor

Doctor Who was pissed The Doctor never got a name in the show

the EMH

not the timelord

and that's why lol

nsITobin: I always thought it funny that one of the Doctors was the same guy who played the lame son in All good Creatures Great and Small.

google claims it was Peter Davison

i didn't know that

Oh was brother not sone

won

son

so hwo was based on the book dr christian herriot in a country vet clinic but his bosses idiot son was played by youtu.be/a6iW-8xPw3k

so hwo was based on the book dr christian herriot in a country vet clinic but his bosses idiot son was played by Peter Davison

bad cut and paste there

I guess idiot was a bit harsh, but not quite up to the medical acumen of the other 2

Or in trying to take anything as seriously as the other two

[1133-27] <irc.binaryoutcast.com> CONNECT: Client connecting on port 6667 (class General): moonchild!webchat⊙1dcwfn (184.15.128.140) [Web User]

[1133-31] <irc.binaryoutcast.com> QUIT: Client exiting: moonchild!webchat⊙1dcwfn (184.15.128.140) [Quit: Page closed]

that sure doesn't look like sweden to me

west virgina frontier.. not nuke he has comcast business class or whateve rthey call it these days.. not a200 he has spectrum and is somewhere in texas.. hmm someone wants to play.

deff a home line

so not a vpn

got em

somdcomputerguy Joined: 2014-02-23, 17:25

Location: Greenbrier County, West Virginia

I have a Swiss friend who lives near Sweeden Maine

heh

somdcomputerguy is not a threat but might become an annoyance if they don't do something constructive like speaking to me.

anyway just distraction tactics continuing with mah work

cloning mozilla-central on hg

WG9s: so edge.. has no function to set a picture as a wallpaper in windows..

Timestamp: 7/29/2024, 12:28:47 PM

Error: NS_ERROR_NOT_AVAILABLE: Component returned failure code: 0x80040111 (NS_ERROR_NOT_AVAILABLE) [nsIShellService.setDesktopBackground]

Source File: chrome://communicator/content/setDesktopBackground.js

Line: 46

this is current release

btw

(yes I often use xul browsers to manage my wallpaper or i used to)

WG9s: did you add the missing brand.ftl to locals on cc?

cause that was one of the changes in my previous efforts .. obviously you wouldn't know about it being missing cause you haven't been able to run it unless you go to dist/bin and run it that way

maybe not obviously more like less likely

the other issue which can only be solved by porting DllBlocklistOOP OR patching m-c is an issue within the sandboxBroker

Thunderbird is accounted for

damn the jsm loader is gone

i think

not yet.. bugzilla.mozilla.org/1881887

"privileged extensions"

rest well frg and wg9s

oh yeah, the comb the desert was a specific kind of great gold

in case it's unbeknownst to someone: static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/spaceballs_combing.png

or maybe the youtube links included that, I was trying to avoid opening it :-)

./mach build-backend

i mean hi njsg

lol

what did they do the build output.. the tierbar is being printed in plaintext

this expects a full terminal emulator ..

i've never (& still don't) use Aero (& often have to mention that, cause programs *assume* you have it)

well aero the style is long dead

but aero the tech is still there

but is being supplanted by xaml islands

[1241-11] <nsITobin> the other issue which can only be solved by porting DllBlocklistOOP OR patching m-c is an issue within the sandboxBroker

if i bothered to remember to do it and not spend the last hour hunting down why it isn't working

...

btw just ran across this even tho its apperently been talked about a lot.. well i was busy in 2018.. github.com/captbaritone/webamp

this level of quality is what I expect when someone tells me a webapp replacing a desktop one.

dunno if it works in seamonkey

Sompi: that's the best way we can keep C

unfortently if we use that tactic.. they will redefine C to be nothing like C

but could attach C to the green movement

every time when environmentalists touch something, it ends up consuming more energy and being more wasteful on resources than it originally was

njsg: postimg.cc/crdZQsDb

Buoy

I fixed up my component and made it show

on cc

well I am done for the night i need to eat something.. still be on for a while longer if needed