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nsITobin
If Windows 7 is retro computing despite being 60% of windows as-is today still.. then I am 100% done with $currentModern
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nsITobin
njsg:
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nsITobin
likely closer to 80% but still
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nsITobin
i mean my system has been rendered windows 7 incompatible and i have no idea how that happened since I have never updated efi and am using the same media i been using for a decade
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nsITobin
cause Windows 8+ is Windows 7 except for what they changed/fucked up plus added now windows 11 is far more destructive against NT vs 10
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nsITobin
windows 10 from useage feel and testing alone in compairson felt like a UX fucked NT6 build until LTSC 2021 builds
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nsITobin
then it went from feeling and acting like sub-optimal windows to sub-optimal windows is in direct conflict with new tech
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njsg
nsITobin: wait was that to be interpreted with modus ponens or modus tollens?
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njsg
(I can't say I've encountered a system that can't run WinNT 6.1; Windows 4, in the other hand, one time I tried with a machine that showed an A20 gate error, but didn't inspect further)
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njsg
(ruined my plans of seeing how 4.10 performed with DDR3, but I continued on a DDR2 with SSD. Setup progress bars flew. Now drivers were an issue... past the (non-NT) installation environment, it'd need a bunch of tweaks.)
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frg_Away
Hi nsITobin
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frg_Away
njsg MS blocked Windows 7 updates for everything after Skylarke (gen-6) and later AMD too. Chipset and integrated gfx drivers too so it might run but does so like sh*t. There are some workarounds but missing drivers are missing drivers.
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njsg
ah, Redmond being Redmond :-)
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njsg
So is that the KB312108 treatment for 7? Or they're not even sharing these updates through extended support agreements?
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frg_Away
Intel and AMD stopped providing drivers for post gen-6. I am pretty sure every Ryzen is unsupported too.
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frg_Away
amd stopp Win 8 support too very early with gfx drivers. I always recommended Nvidia for Windows afterwards because of this. My personal revenge and it did cost them a few sales :)
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frg_Away
Not that I love nvidia but the Windows drivers are tons better.
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nsITobin
unsupported but up until a few years ago worked flawlessly
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nsITobin
frg_Away: may wanna reeval that since nvidia drivers and firmware have repeatedly resulted in flaws that destroy your hardware
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nsITobin
wufuc worked well
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frg_Away
nsITobin I recommend them only for Windows
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nsITobin
open source nvidia drivers are a shit show
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nsITobin
they had em working fairly well and then something or another radically changed
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frg_Away
The only issue I am aware of are the bad chips 2007/2008 which self destructed over time.
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nsITobin
frg_Away: modern video cards live and die by their firmware and their firmware is Modern Software
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nsITobin
do the math
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nsITobin
but doing so may overclock your gpu to hell
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nsITobin
because of an errOr
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frg_Away
Personally I am super happy with an RTX 2060 Super. Last generation running 7 to 11.
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frg_Away
For Linux RX 580
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nsITobin
most of this tho is fallout from pandemic era hardware and software .. the REAL danger is the persistant crap practices employed during the pandemic that resulted in crap hardware and software.. that persisting is the real issue not that nvidia won't admit responsibility for millions of dollars of hardware from a time when gpus were thousands of dollars a piece
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nsITobin
it could destroy nvidia to do so
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nsITobin
and a bankrupt nvidia means no rmas or refunds lol
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frg_Away
nsITobin Intel high end gen 13 and 14 are self destructing now too.
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nsITobin
frg_Away: I heard about that
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nsITobin
i was gonna go intel after amd sucks at LGA and firmware.. figures intel does too
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njsg
on one hand, broadcom is bad at firmware, OTOH it's not self-destruct. Although it might mean that, in practice, it never works properly, to begin with...
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nsITobin
suppose I will just see if I can get an x570 and never ever EVER let amorory crate get ahold of it
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nsITobin
njsg: broadcom is gonna ruin virtualization for me
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nsITobin
i specifically want a virtualized pc in a window
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nsITobin
which is NOT the usecase for kvm
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nsITobin
and virtualbox is junk
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nsITobin
vmware aside from hyperv+mstsc are the top virtualization platforms for computer in a computer style virtualzation.. kvm is for server cluster ssh maybe vnc style virtualzation
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nsITobin
and broadcom is gonna ruin it
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frg_Away
Personally I am at about gen 3 to 6 and don't plan to update hardware. Current Supermicro workstation boards don't suit me becuase of ipmi. Xeons are hot sh*t show and anything running only 10 and 11 can stay at the dealers.
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nsITobin
AND make it service based
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nsITobin
perpetual licensing is gone
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nsITobin
they say
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nsITobin
frg_Away: My hardware is ~2017-2018 era and it is showing its age and has had hard life as a Dalek Battle Computer and manual tinderbox for years on end
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njsg
nsITobin: that's going to be confusing, now I have to learn to tell Broadcom apart from Oracle?
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nsITobin
njsg: its easy.. oracle ruined everything virtualization in the 2010s.. broadcom is ruining it in the 2020s
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nsITobin
;)
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frg_Away
îf it were not for SeaMonkey I would probably be out of the PC game. I can do shopping on a cheap used laptop. Linux is too fragmented and the driver model is mehh. Gems like gnome 4 not even accounted for...
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njsg
I'll probably at least try some BSD...
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nsITobin
I am still gonna roll my own
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njsg
the way things are going, it looks like freedesktop will be forcing desktop-centric designs upon everyone, and then there is systemd and the like, that's slowly turning Linux into something completely different
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njsg
which is fine if you're into that, but to me it looks it's becoming less and less of the kind of system I find usable
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nsITobin
forcing half-maked microsoft/apple like designs
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nsITobin
i don't see that as the same as desktop-centric
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nsITobin
cause microsoft and apple aren't
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tomman
sunday~
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tomman
guys, get RISC-V running TempleOS .D
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tomman
:D_
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tomman
AGH I hate those FLAAAAAAT laptop keyboards
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nsITobin
tomman: SAME
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njsg
I mean freedesktop tends to be centered about design and features for desktop environments, and then these get promoted as a standard for anything GUI or even anything at all on Linux
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tomman
njsg: I thought Freedesktop was centered about "what GNOME needs" these days
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nsITobin
njsg: its a weak whatwg at this point
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nsITobin
controlled by gnome
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nsITobin
and ibm
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nsITobin
seriously tomman njsg you will find RedHat at the center of a whole lot of what linux users did NOT want and still don't
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njsg
next step is going to be "let's go with wayland" (at this rate, I wonder why have they been extensively migrating some xorg projects to different build systems, if their goal is to cease xorg development in favor of wayland?)
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tomman
Wayland is permabanned at this house
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tomman
X11 is the die where I'm dying o
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njsg
some people out there still believe that only freedesktop does X development, and that their own decisions regarding wayland and X11 means that the GUI future is wayland.
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nsITobin
already in progress.. $majorDistros and $ourExperienceDE already dropping x11
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tomman
very rare times I ban a software platform at my premises, but there is enough justification for this case
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njsg
I wonder if NetBSD's post on Xorg means upstream is the reason why upstreaming changes is difficult.
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nsITobin
tomman: linux and other open source software is the vast majority of everything the global infrastructure runs on.. sure may be a windows client more than not but its almost always a linux server or some other unix
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tomman
didn't NetBSD forked Xorg into Xenocara?
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nsITobin
we can't let the nebuious them have linux too
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tomman
good luck with that, kids these days hate working with "ooooold ewww" code
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tomman
especially if written in unsexy languages like C
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njsg
tomman: no idea, I only know they do active development and have support beyond what Xorg does
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nsITobin
tomman: bsd is gonna bsd tho and modify it for only them selves.. I intend to do a similar effort and also I don't want it to be a choice between Debian-ish and OpenBSD
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nsITobin
to get X
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nsITobin
because in that equasion i would just give up
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tomman
I'll stick to Debian, the day they force Waytrash on me, I'll stick to the previous unsabotaged stable until it goes EOL and beyond
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tomman
then I'll either switch to Windows 9x or drop computers forever
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nsITobin
tomman: they will force it just like systemd
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nsITobin
its only a matter of time
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njsg
banned here is dbus, btw.
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tomman
Ironically, I have no problem with systemd
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tomman
don't mess with me and I'll let you live
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tomman
systemd has obeyed that here, so it gets a pass
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njsg
not because of dbus itself, but because once it's enabled in one tool somewhere or even just installed, a bunch of software will insist on starting or demanding a bus
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tomman
but Wayland starts right off the bat with "your use case doesn't exist, go away"
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nsITobin
tomman: if you do nothing but start stop and write the odd ini file its fine.. anything more complex or custom and its a nightmare because it assumes ultiment authority
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tomman
I'm not a sysadmin, thankfully :)
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tomman
there are things I like (simple syntax to define a service), things I hate (systemd documentation SUUUUCKS), but so far... the bits I have to interact with haven't pissed me off. YET.
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njsg
systemd approach: let's consider there is only one login prompt per seat. (did you just get rid of one of the interesting features of linux of having several "virtual terminals", and possibly even several X servers running?) - again, this might suit some, but really makes it hard to use the system when I expect groups and user to determine privileges, not what consolekit says. might be configurable, but
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njsg
it's still something I have no use for.
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njsg
still, perhaps I should have a glance about systemd configuration, although I have the faint recollection of that not being necessarily stable
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tomman
of course your use case is not my use case
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njsg
the only time a system being systemd caused me bigger trouble was when I wanted to add one more getty, set myself to just edit inittab and then "uh, this doesn't work?"
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tomman
and I do believe that systemd's trying to become "jack of all trades, master of none" is dumb
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tomman
but seriousy, modernization on that area was severely needed
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njsg
turns out systemd has a completely different way to set the system to be usable from a terminal
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frg_Away
well coreutils goes rust so more fun :)
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tomman
Rust! All! The! Things!
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tomman
but not CPUs, please, I don't want another Raptor Lake :P
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nsITobin
well we are gonna need a linux kernel fork that excludes rust
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nsITobin
that's a ready made project
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nsITobin
surprised no one is doing it
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nsITobin
frg_Away: do you know where the vsinstaller for 2019 has gotten off to
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nsITobin
cause the only thing not listed as not-available is a cpp redist
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frg_Away
This one?
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frg_Away
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frg_Away
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nsITobin
yeah that one
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nsITobin
idc what the redist license is on it i am gonna put it up on files dot xulorg
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nsITobin
besides its just a stub anyway
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nsITobin
I am attempting to build some windows VMs for sm and quantum development
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nsITobin
and one to run my design bs
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nsITobin
I dunno it is quite unnerving to be based on things you know will crumble in 6 months to a few years but that is how things are these days and if I don't put in a major bunch of effort my systems are just gonna decay and become inoperable and while others may be able to deal far better I know it isn't a picnic either
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nsITobin
in either case*
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nsITobin
is it wrong to think github should not be engaged in advanced social networking and ecommerce/donation processors?
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nsITobin
nfdeskj
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nsITobin
THAT'S IT
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nsITobin
I bet one day github will just be an extension of the microsoft store
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nsITobin
part of the benefits to being a microsoft developer for windows and linux
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nsITobin
if that ain't the long term strat i dunno what is
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njsg
nsITobin: XBox Gold will include the social networking part of github, XBox Developer will include the VCS
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njsg
XBox Developer Plus Cloud will include "github pages" and issue tracking and reactions
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njsg
XBox Developer Plus Cloud Platinum includes the full MSDN subscription
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tomman
does Visual Studio have achievements now? :D
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nsITobin
tomman: YES .. or it did for a minute you have microsoft account points
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frg_Away
nighty night
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nsITobin
peace
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nsITobin
I love gogs' ability to auto update mirrors on a schedule
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nsITobin
tho i wish i could hide the org
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njsg
tomman: oh, no, I was imagining the future
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nsITobin
njsg: imagining or extrapolating
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tomman
"Achievement Unlocked: You created a new Win32 Application"
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tomman
"Achievement Unlocked: You single-stepped a instruction on the debugger"
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njsg
"Achievement Unlocked: Your first off-by-one"
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nsITobin
i think new win32 apps are an anti-achievement according to microsoft
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tomman
"Achievement Unlocked: You crashed the runtime in a unusual way"
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njsg
"Achievement Unlocked: ICE"
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njsg
"Achievement Unlocked: You imported your first header file"
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njsg
"Achievement Unlocked: You imported your tenth header file"
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nsITobin
all achievement systems are extrapolated from Omo Chao on the Sega Dreamcast
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njsg
"Achievement Unlocked: Stack overflow when counting header imports: you did your first infinitely recursive import, and we don't do tail recursion in this code."
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nsITobin
Achievement unlocked: Your post on stack overflow has 12 posts but no one actually answered your question
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tomman
and of course the ultimate achievement: You ran the Visual Studio uninstaller
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njsg
(or, well, "stack underflow" in IA-32 and amd64?)
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nsITobin
njsg smarty the php templating language .. now has a depednacy on a syphony plugin
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nsITobin
and has been PSR'd
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nsITobin
okay its optional unless you don't have the mbstring extension .. also looking at the code its been completely refactored into a modern lib dropping many cool features I intend to use so guess I am forking smarty