Sompi: from the other day, I'm curious, who came up with that "open formats are ideological" stance?

I don't know who originally came up with it. But it seems to be a normal way of thinking now.

And it always includes the assumption that closed source programs and closed formats and protocols are ideologically neutral, even when used exclusively

they are ideological, but so is almost everything made by men

It goes so far that you cannot even use free programming/developing tools in schools. You have to use closed source compilers where the students cannot even see how things are implemented in the source code of the libraries

it comes from the same thinking that private property and markets are natural to humans

In this case people who think that way don't understand how computers and programming work

If you cannot see the source code of the compiler and run-time libraries, you cannot effectively learn how your code turns into an executable

And if your code doesn't work for some reason, you'll often have a hard time figuring out why

it's not that they don't understand, they simply don't care

they know we're headed to total destruction in all spheres of life but we're just gonna keep pushing

It can also be genuine incompetence

Microsoft and other corporations other host events where those people are trained for their jobs

In those events the education means just spreading disinformation

I don't understand why those events are not widely seen as a problem

It should be clear that they are not neutral

vacilating orgs such as eff and fsf aren't helping

They are being infiltrated by wokeists. Woke is a psychological operation that was originally designed to end the occupy protests in the Wall Street, but after that it became a general-purpose weapon to destroy everything that threatens the hegemony of large corporations

news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42177767 Hackernews is deeply concerned that Google could be forced to spinoff their beloved Chrome

~the horror~

many hope they don't touch Safari, others reminded us that Firefox sucks, and when asked about "other browsers", the answer is *crickets*

that puts Microsoft back at Internet Explorer dominance with MSEdge and defacto ownership of the Windows branch

i predicted this

but the real fear: who will keep Pushing! Things! Forward! with new "standards" every week?

tomman: remember

ha, some idiot was suggesting Chredge as a savior from a Chrome monopoly :D

"but dude, that's still Chrome"

see its already in place

"butbutbut it's not Google!"

tomman: no its different cause its a different label

but every mozilla fork is a fork of firefox including seamonkey

and thunderbird

i hate this

it's like supermarket-brand mayo vs. actual brand mayo

despite both being made at the same factory

with the same recipe

and both are effectively the same thing, just different labels

some store brands are national brands some are knockoff brands that have their own merrits

but i do hate this so much.. every chrome is different yet the same but everything done with mozilla is just "firefox"

and not different except being old and insecure

especially when it isn't

And the people who discuss things there in the Hackernews are supposed to be the ones who know more than an ordinary layman...

Sompi: anything that threatens its exit chances of selling their JS bloat scamtups for $BILLIONS is not welcomed warmly there

I know so much about the browser war because I have been living it since 2005 and a participant of minimal exceptionalism since 2008

not because I am smarter than other people

people hated IE because it was old, stale, unsafe, and full of proprietary garbage

but the same people now loves Chrome because it's "fresh, innovative, safe, and full of shiny things"

no people hated IE because microsoft forced it into every aspect of their lives or tried hard to

Well, and Google isn't forcing Chrome too? I mean, that goes implicit for both browsers

which is fine if you like IE or that feature set and i did for a little while but then they didn't do anything with it

not reading sponcer installer page checkboxes is how chrome got around

and preinstalls

bundling but not of the OS

"install this random PDF reader and get a web browser!"

.. except android now

install google earth and get a browser

too

google earth was great software when it was keyhole but it rots at google

I need to devise a solid schedule to balance my workload

so i can have an effective workload

lol

magiclasso.co/insights/is-chrome-the-new-ie ah, found it (this was on yesterday's HN frontpage)

> With Edge, Microsoft has a chance to claim the position of the disruptive alternate browser.

> Though, despite these advantages, Edge hasn’t set the world alight. Its marketshare is higher, though similar to Firefox. But it is available on all major platforms. It has also avoided alternative-browser compatibility issues by being based upon Chromium. It may also be able to successfully leverage Microsoft’s vast channels to reach new users.

nsITobin: getting downvoted in 3... 2... 1...

you're hurting the feelings of the hivemind! :D

well downvoted is better than shadowbanned

lol

we don't argue with facts at HN!

dude.. I am still some sort of Tobin..

i will argue with anyone about anything for any reason

including entertainment

wanna argue about it tomman?

nah, I just had breakfast~

k :)

what I need to do now is some backups, I'm dangerously late with my monthly HDD images

and that's not zen

(of course endless power outages do not help with getting that task done)

i should start a new wim file and back up too

wimlib-imagex with --unix-data makes wim a linux system imaging format

It's also interesting how "available on all major platforms" seem to mean less and less platforms every year

"Major platforms": Windows, Mac, Android and iOS

that's it.

Now browsers even have CPU-dependent code that only works on certain instruction sets

if you're lucky, a Electron-powered "port" for Linux

that was true the moment the browser became a media player

technically

"linux" means only 64-bit x86

it used to mean so much more

but for primary rendering? has it come to that now?

Sompi: hell, even ARM64 is a second class citizen for Linux these days, despite being the hot trend (because Apple) :D

We keep losing more and more technological diversity, and that's the fault of people who embrace diversity themselves

it's gonna go back to the model where everyone's hardware is different but the web is the interop between all propritary systems

And with technological diversity we lose freedom

it was never about open standards for everyone its about open standards for propritary interop

bring back Amiga and Atari ST! :D

regardless I intend to plod along and fork everything

except seamonkey

i don't have to fork seamonkey cause I am allowed to work on seamonkey providing i find the right things to poke at

it's also weird how aggressively these "normies" are coercing everyone else to use the same technological solutions as they themselves use

while pretending to advocate for values like freedom and privacy

Well, in my personal experience, "normies" don't even advocate for anything

I only do that when I am the one who will be constantly asked to deal with them not bothering to learn the system them selves.. if i have to solve everything for everyone anyway why don't they use my solutions.. but i agree the issue is that people are both unwilling to and discuraged from finding their own solutions and workarounds

they are just tech illiterate, do not want to learn, and just wanna get stuff done and stay out of problems, even if their illiteracy actually ends harming them on the long run

to bring them to something akin to equal terms with others

even telling people "why not Telegram instead of WhatsApp?" is like climbing the Everest with surgical gloves

i am more extreme.. big shock

they the FUCK are you putting anything in that phone beyond what you need to look something up and make a phone call

Nowadays Telegram also requires an Android or iOS phone so it is not a viable choice for anything

why*

I refuse to be bound to a cell phone

And also it now has a backdoor

Officially

For government officials

Telegram continues to boast about its security while still saving all messages on its servers in plaintext and now it even requires an Android or iOS phone which all have backdoors for governments

And somehow most people still don't see a problem

doublethink

blackwhite

the chocoration going up from 25 to 20 grams

you know Sompi

Antimonopoly action is good for the market, but let's be honest nobody will make a better chrome, at best they will inject ads or turn it to a walled garden. It will be a bad thing in the end for us web developers , and we will lose the last open platform.

fromn that ycombinator post

they literally believe google chrome is ad free not a walled garden and the only open platform

...

I don't want to create a "better chrome", I just want open and STABLE standards that I can follow when creating my own browser from scratch

I want the xml web i was promised

I just want glorified document readers with minimal interactivity

get rid of videos, audio, 3D, USB, filesystem, and all that stuff that belongs to a OS!

if I wanted to play videogames, I would just go to Steam and buy one

or an actual store

and buy a physical copy of it, and own it

and make backups of it

Given the sorry state of the gamedev industry right now, physical format games are on its last legs nowadays

the best you can aim is for something like GOG

the problem is that even if we leave aside the DRM crap, games require frequent updates because they ship BROKEN

especially AAA crud

tomman: unfortently you can't cause js frameworks have no feature detetcion or error checking for anything but what chrome supports

hell, even small indie games these days are built over complex engines

so you exclude parts scripts fail

all of it not just that part

It is actually easier to write a game for DOS than it is for any "modern" multitasking operating system...

> news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42183844

aaaaand the hivemind has downvoted it :D

surprisingly it hasn't been nuked yet

news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42180975 this one also got buried, but I think it was because of party slant

tomman: eh, that one was nonsense

half of it was nonsense

but the rest really deserved the downvote

however, it's the crap that normally Hackernews would praise, not bury

reddit minds

tomman: the Tobin Factor may be in play as well

never doubt it

I dunno which is worse.. being silenced or just not being taken seriously

I'm pretty much sure the Tobin Factor is mostly irrelevant among the current Hackernews crowd

perhaps

but I did specifically cite it as Former Pale Moon Asshole

as if that was my rank

they just see "oh, someone is saying mean things about Our Savior Chrome"

.. and it kinda was

BTW, the thread is well past 1000 comments

the tech left just learned cultism works

because of course it impacts the very living of most HN

not that it is good just that it works

save me mommy chrome from daddy trump!

fuck sakes is THIS what we have devolved into?

nsITobin: mommy chrommy

The United Nations Of Chrome

don't worry uncle microsoft will save us

mastodon.social/@jwz/113506616368126616 in related awful news

wtf, didn't knew the latest stage of brand necrophilia for Netscape was... branding a Chrome clone

now THAT'S an insult

wait

what

??????

OH SHIT

FUCK

FUCK FUCK FDUCK DFIUHDR(&*FQW

welcome back

ANyway as I was saying this is a TERRIBLE suggestion

who's gonna piss off oath

:)

frg_Away: does seamonkey have enough money yet to buy the Netscape trademark?

Trying to ind a official source for that...

well, Netscape is also a ISP, apparently

well yeah old dial up isp

still makes AOL money

but if the netscape brand is used on chromium

....

ugh, the sketchy info I can find is behind whatever the hell is Threads or YT videos

why in fucks name is jwz boosting Chris Pirillo

nsITobin: i wonder who their audience is

and a stupid image macro to boot

i mean the only people in the world that still cares for netscape is in this channel

tomman: i hold no illusions jwz, my personal fuckin jesus christ.. would hate my guts

Sompi: is this from experience at some schools? can you name some? I'm curious as to where is that happening, is this all grade school, or AMKs too?

so its not netscape

brandwise

just netscape because aol owns netscape

the trademark

even tho it is branded as aol shitshield or something

isp.netscape.com ah yeah, it's the "Download Browser" link at the very bottom

aol.sentrybay.com/deploy/aol.php?li…00000002&ncid=mbr_rusdeflnk00000002 => it sends to a very shady .EXE called "AOL_Netscape.exe"

this says its copyright yahoo

Sompi: Microsoft *is* indeed known for doubling down on misinformation, it seems they go with the "sales must be a pitch" hype, *even* with tech audiences. Although I'd say having Greg Sullivan double down on "the MKS Korn Shell is fully compatible with the original Korn Shell" in front of David Korn was a bit too much.

yep, this is Chromoscape

today is a very sad day for the history of Internet

btw i figured out why Mozilla really got rid of the nsPrefix.. because an nsDAP.cpp would not go over well.

put that on your denylist and vape it..

but seriously.. i dunno things are shifting and I don't like it.

i.pandas.social/media_attachments/f…0/215/original/df1d38b2eea5813f.jpg ah, this meme is VERY appropiate

i asked this question 10 fucking years ago

no one has given me a proper answer beyond open standards

"Innovation"

... its not an open standard when everyone uses the same product with a different label

"Pushing Things Forward"

"Healthy Ecosystems"

"Eternal Youth"

like the one I created?

minus the fascism

or maybe more of it i dunno anymore

"Because a static website needs dynamic imports, BigInt, and of course, emoji regexes"

<+tomman> "Major platforms": Windows, Mac, Android and iOS <--- "what do you mean 'Performance Optimization With Enhanced RISC - Performance Computing'?"

side note: climbing the everest with surgical gloves does sound like extremely unpleasant

tomman: it's literally cheaper to offload the processing power to the client and only have the server validate inputs and outputs

that is why this started

now why it continues is beyond me

so we went from "thin clients" to "thin servers" :D

energy or compute time whichever you messure.. its cheaper to make YOU process it and me just check and authorize your work

yes

exactly

but of course green tech limits consumer electronics

which will continue regardless

green tech did take a massive hit from amber terminals

besides that consumer power in that device you bought but don't have the right to repair and will be obsoleted by software update.. that compute power is for the services you bought the device for.. creation is neich.. consumption is universal

you are paying people for the ability to pay people for things you could do your self not 20 years ago

so njsg how do we embed chromium into seamonkey

and control it

nsITobin: chrome.manifest?

njsg: NOT MO MORE

not extension chrome.manifest

doing it like that would likely also need the npapi plugin as well

like ietab

and that is gone too so it would have to be .. built-in

yeah, that was a joke :-P

tho i am sure it could be made to be fine without the chromeium components by some checking so the support is built in but the chromium package would still be an "add-on" likely packaged as such just so there is a known path and the user can update it

all i need is the code that makes it .. reality.. concept has been simmering in my head for 8 years

but there are things I don't understand

like sure I can control a thing in mozilla code but i don't exactly understand how a widget like a browser window actually becomes a widget that gets drawn.. that's the part I am missing cause i have done vb and c# stuff with gecko and ie but i had that activex control that.. did the construction of the widget

xcancel.com just gets me back to the captcha, is it supposed to work?

so if i had a <chromium> widget defined by xbl.. how do i make it draw the thing where that element is because everything past that is just controlling it

I'm not bothering to try with JS enabled because, well, if they have a note on having to enable cookies and none on JS, I'm assuing it doesn't need JS, and it actually passes the captcha...

yeah none of this ietab2 code is worth anything without npapi

njsg: xcancel has never threw a captcha at me...

even Poast started working on the recent nightlies without doing anything

js enabled or disabled?

enabled

xcancel will do the "verifying your browser" crap 2 times, by the 3rd one you will pass and get redirected to the actual site

and yes, sites stealing that Clownflare stupid idea of "verifying your browser" should be sent to a bank, in the middle of Siberia

well i need to invent the Web protocol.. its like https except 1.1 and self-signed == same as http and let them have https as the app protocol they want

cause I believe in the World Wide Web

not the OpenWeb as run by clownflare and dictated by Googlesoft

isn't Clownflare these days a Googlesoft subsidiary anyway?

dunno

maybe

I think Mozilla is gonna get Google's ad business while Microsoft owns and operates chrome inc as a wholey owned subsidiary it will be fedora where edge will be solid stable and invasive

and google will just be the core google services search mail maps drive and youtube will be split off and got by either a telecom or microsoft again

remember it's only a bullshit prediction until it happens lol

tomman mrnhmath

nsITobin: i highly doubt any of this is going forward

what was the last time the us broke up something

well i bet chrome will be seperated from google one way or another

or the advertising business

it will be interesting to see if Mozilla will re-set the precident of being a browser services and ad business like apple was

weeeeeeeeeeeeeee *zirch* dpaste.com/F39NLCHPN

ahoy :)

hey