Status meeting in 29 minutes - wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2025-01-05

Status meeting in 19 minutes - wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2025-01-05

Status meeting in 10 minutes - wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2025-01-05

hi .*

hiya njsg

Status meeting in 3 minutes - wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2025-01-05

Status meeting time - wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2025-01-05

Greetings all

greetings frg

Happy New Year all

Who's taking minutes?

seems to be a small audience this time.

me

late as usual. Just updated the last one.

A quick one then :)

Nominees for Friends of the Fish Tank?

ewong for release management and as IanN stated server wrangling

seconded

thirded

Action Items

BAU?

bau. Signing key is for infra I think.

yeah

Status of the SeaMonkey Infrastructure

I think we're using aus5 now

s@2024@2025@ on the IA-32 builds part?

I updated the 2019 builder and was able to do 2.53.20 beta and the final on it. The 2012 R2 server can be decommisioned.

we're also using a new server for linux builds, so certain lib requirements have changed

The linux i686 is affected the most. Minimum base os is now red hat 8 or *buntu 20.

I tested the release using Q4OS 5.7.

Personally I would cut x86 support loose btu I already stated this :) Windows 7 and 8.x can not even be udpated any longer unlike the x64 versions.

Anyone on 10 x86 is looney and not a toon :)

yeah, time's running out

maybe they're animaniacs

10 is EOL in Oct 25

not even checked if 11 x86 exists

[cartoon sketch idea for Coyote deploying ACME(tm) Windows 7 Updates for IA-32]

Lets see how big the outcry is abotu the new Linux i686 requirements. Windows insn't much of a problem building btu the crash rate is abotu 10 times higher because of ooms.

Status of the SeaMonkey Source Tree

No 11 is x64 and arm only. I would rather do arm in the future but its audience might be single persons :)

Not much herer from me. Updqted the wip branch a bit but real life is still in full steam unfortunately.

Bute we forgot to discuss the signing key.

oh yeah

Our Windows signing key expires tomorrow. Need to do something about it or the next release will ship unsigned. Can live with this but not a good image.

once 2.53.20 final is out the door, I willtry to coordinate with ewong and mcsmurf on sorting the new key out

issue being Microsoft's new requirements, right?

njsg: correct

New keya re all hardware based and need to be stored on an usb key or in a vault. I donÄt trhink it is an MS requirement. Seems to be the de facto standard now.

well it needs to practical for a virtual env

and not massively expensive

Release Train

2.53.20 was done early yesterday to still ship it signed.

Not much over the beta. 4 fixes. 2 from 115.19

oh, first meeting of the year~

oh btw are the merges still happening tomorrow?

Shoudl appear soon.

This is usual rx11m territory :)

njsg: anything ACME™ sounds better than regular Windows Update, for sure

Extensions Tracking

my installed extensions here remain as useful/broken as usual

bau for me.

haven't had the time to figure out how to get that built-in version of jQuery working again on my mod of Redirector

pdf.js amazingly still works despite being oooooooooold

everything else clings to life but no mods have been needed so far in the last 6 months or more

lots of changes going into cZ, so please test nightlies

oooh, what changes exactly?

tomman: mostly code cleansing / modernising

So basically "smell for regressions"

Still in review Just check latets bugs or IanNs notes:

tomman: occasional bug fex

*fix

does anyone know of extensions that might inline "opengraph" metadata? I haven't checked yet, just wondering if anyone is using something.

There are at least some sites that require javascript to render the content but which include relevant pieces as META tags

mastodon, pinterest?

(and pasteboard has twitter:image; you can check Page Info, first tab, to see what I mean, sometimes stuff will be there)

or did I mention this already in a previous meeting?

njsg web comatibility is urgk any way and I just sue a different browser for incompatible sites.

Stuff in the qip branch will help much but no eta.

^compatibility

this sometimes reaches a wtf-level: mastodon requires javascript in versions 4.*, but includes post text and attachments and their alt text in meta tags.

let's hope 2025 is the year Alphabet is finally forced to divest of Chrome, to see if this put an end to this neverending featuritis treadmill on webdevs

that is, they do the work of including the post in the document, they just don't put it in the body.

2.Next, Feature List, Planning and Roundtable

If they are forced to set the search stuff free or not allowed to pay mozilla is finished but that is off topic.++ .

bau. Doing flip flops between wip branch normal branch and real life.

yeah, bau for me too

sadly the same level of bau here, hoping 2025 starts with more time

360 days to go~!

one less day than last year :(

yeah, this is a worrying trend, next thing days will be 23-hour long!

i'd not put it passed certain world leaders in 2025

AOB?

bau

Hi nsITobin Anything to add before we finish?

one moment

Not really

okay, thanks for your time today

next meeting in 3 weeks time, same bat channel, same bat time

Sorry I missed most of it

Jan 26?

yeah

26th Jan rather than Jan 2026

I should have some stuff by then ;)

oh right, didn't see the ambiguity in that

see you here and away.

we need an ACME™ Edition SeaMonkey

eh?

frg_Away: L-WIP-9999999-editoricons.patch should be Bug 883728

nsITobin is this one still relevant? I thought we got rid of the gifs already.

Good question

let me check

Hello

I have decided and put FireFox as the default browser - BUT SM say that it is still the default browser ... how to change that ?

I'd double-check in the platform you're using (freedesktop, Windows, ...) what the settings are

in the windows setting as default app I have already changed to FireFox

frg_Away: current state is PNG conversions only

yes I see. I do a quick reformat and add the form icon to small

Ray_Net: any chance it only changed one of several options? in that case then it might be worth a try to do the change from Firefox itself.

while I have worked out styling to replicate the hard background for round toolbar images I haven't done the bubble effect yet.. that is next on my agenda to work out

the dropshadow*

At least in NT6.1, the available UI to set application defaults is a bit limited, I think it tries to group it all in one option but I'm not sure that's always the case.

Ray_Net: how's your regedit skills

i seriously need to replace xdg-open

all the files type associations now are for Firefox

cause it fucking defaults everything including some files that have associations with seamonkey which then wants to redownload it from edge cache or whatever and THEN it will open correctly

I had first asked firefox to be the default

on linux

SeaMonkey and Firefox have code to set the defaults through the available platform, that at least ought to set it, I meant checking the platform as a way to make sure a change had happened, but if you did it via the platform's UI, then doing it via Firefox is worth a shot.

Ray_Net: when you say SeaMonkey still says it's the default, where are you seeing this?

shellservice and helper direct that on winders but its still just registry entries tho 8+ is more crap then ever to get it valid but still its all just regkeys in the end .. at least for now

nsITobin: my regedit skills are mostly limited to cursing about the builtin search :-P

but it's multilingual cursing

I see that in the edit-preference- browser

remember seamonkey is a suite

not JUST a web client

it written that it's already the default

so it has defaults for mail and maybe even rss

never knew if that actually worked or not

I don't know the state of seamonkey's shellservice tho.. I bypassed it for the Pale Moonized Basilisk firefox 52 shell service in Borealis and never did actually fully hook it up

i know it registers on 8+ for sure

but not all the conditions to determine if it is the default browser .. what version of windows?

and the "Set default browser" button is gryed

I will try a restart ...

k

I don't see a text saying it's already the default

but settings here are on the Advanced pane, not Browser

what I do see is buttons greyed out when SeaMonkey is the default

if the UI is in question observing the UI won't mean much until you confirm where and how and if its still registered as default for something.. The UI logic might be messed up.. it's XUL it happens.. but that is why I was asking questions related to the OS first

If it is 8+ you need to first set the new default client in Settings.. if its Windows 7.. well that's not that hard

essentually in 8+ registering normally only allows you to be CHOSEN it doesn't set the default for shit like web and mail clients

that is why shellservice tells helper to invoke the default choice interface rather than just being one and done like 7 and older

Seamonkey think always that it is still my default browser but clicking here randoevasion.be/fr/agenda opens it in fifeFox

adding that : browser.shell.checkDefaultBrowser false in the about:config did not help

that just checks, but I'm still puzzled as how are you seeing the indication inside SeaMonkey

did the UI for this change recently?

is see it in edit-preference-browser

it's written Seamonkey is already the default browser

Should I uninstall SM an install it ?

Ray_Net: which version of SeaMonkey is this?

SeaMonkey/2.53.3

but now I have a problem - how to delete an added item in the about:config ?

right click -> reset

well, context menu, which can be brought up by right click or shift+f10

reset have changed to a string instead of a boolean but it's still present

and the "delete" key doesnot the remove

it's present but will be gone, not sure if with closing about:config or if with a SM restart

ok, i wil try close-open

Ray_Net: okay, that explains the UI difference

close-open is a good solution

so far I think I see it still says it's the default before it's closed?

anyway SM think that is is the default brower

no the close-open was ok to remove resetted entries in tha about:config

no, scratch that, it updates without quitting

yeah, I meant for about:config, I just thought I had seen a thing with the browser association itself that actually wasn't there

I think that i must do an uninstall of SM and re-install it so he cannot be the default anymore

It's a good idea to upgrade to the last version

Ray_Net: what windows version is this?

Ray_Net: also, just tested with Firefox, the SeaMonkey preference pane does update and doesn't claim to be default

SeaMonkey/2.53.3

windows, not seamonkey

so might be something else...

er, that last bit was in continuation to "to be default"

the windows is version 10 latest update done

okay then from what nsITobin was saying, I wonder if there are issues with how the associations are done and checked for

no idea how detailed the defaults dialog is in Windows 10, you might want to check if it still offers a list of possible associations for Firefox in a more detailed view

on NT6.1, that's "Choose defaults for this program" after selecting Firefox in the "Set Default Programs" screen

anyway during a re-install the new SM will ask to be the default and I then do the choice: no

if you want to *unselect* SeaMonkey I think you have to check this with Windows or Firefox

but I might be missing something here, I'm not really a windows user.

in the windows setting for the default application, for the Browser i changed from SM to Firefox

nsITobin if you want to finh the small icon conversion be my guest. No problem changing the user in the bug patch too. Was just a simple conversion when I did it and its all wrong. Form should be the only one ok.

I hadn't seen what it did just read the patch

njsg thanks for all

frg_Away if it had some work done I can still use it for the larger bugs I just think that patch has been sitting up there for a while

yeah I started and got the clipping wrong. Then something else came up. The sizes might be wrong too.

-moz-image-region really should have made it into the standards

and the way Mozilla styles list items that way and shit.. doing it in HTML is painful

xr still uses my aero-style special component and it uses a backbutton in the same way as it is in mozilla except worse lol

in html you have to constrain the box and shift the background

see #binoc-caption-back

nsITobin seems phorge is the phab sucessor. But looks a bit dead too. Few commits

yeah it is

i looked into it cause its php

and I likes php

but I dunno if Mozilla is gonna keep using phab after the git transition

i fear they will in a year or so say screw this and move str8 to github

like almost everyone else

specialized Mozilla workflows will be seen as a liability

that isn't gonna change

we not :) heptapod it is as long as pissible

gitlab for the gaps

^possible

by the time heptapod becomes not financially viable to keep offering except to rich legacy developers I should have an alternative solution

mq is such an unique feature and is deprecated. If removed you could just use straight git. Sam badness.

frankly at this point I am not sure what git gives me vs just tarball + patches or hgbundle and patches .. except dumb-http cloning

I use it as part of my workflow because that is what I been doing for the past decade but git can be annoying.. yet hg has a cross-platform advanced and largely decent UI .. git has barely anything acceptable which I deem by SourceTree 1.5 for Windows and no less than that .net abomination

git is easier to dist hg is easier to dev with

i think is my updated conclusion

frg_Away:

with structure

git is more unstructured

.. i kinda am starting to understand the issue .. what not the why anyway

git is mainstream and as we know mainstream is always better...

heh

have you guys vendored in autohell 2.13 exactly yet cause I dunno if anything other than older Mozilla actively uses that autoconf version

THERE WE GO

so SERVING hg and git for pull/cloning can be done from a basic webserver

frg_Away: apperently quilt is the design mq is based on

nsITobin 2.13 is in. I think all relevant dependencies also

ah good

frg_Away: yep editor icons (and sorting transparent copies) is gonna be work .. except for a few special cases like the folder icon and dealing with the 3d scissors dropshadow I should be able to get away with only manually cutting out the first state and then i can use those to easily cut out the other three states

nsITobin i am a css dummy so if you have something ready better ask IanN for review. If I should put something in the queues for testing which should work let me knoiw.

i can completely eliminate the disabled state using css and just desaturating and some opacity.. I am actually seeing some design bugs from the netscape era the spellcheck normal and hover states are swapped vs every other icon

lots of warnings too. Just didn't look into them. With all the broken websites I did go into backporting first. Doing ui fixes first feels a bit like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic to me. I now and then still do it :)

i dunno seems like thousands of patches to process and try and apply is a lot of work but UX polish can help retain users if not attract some more.. the toolkit has an identity crisis much of the time and the theme is called Modern but it isn't even up to 2009 skinning standards .. Modern is also often the basis for other skins and as it is built in and a complete including widget styling like textboxs .. with some re-work it could be made to support

a dark theme albeit without platform plumbing would be by pref and other color schemes.. As well as personas/static-lighteight themes

nsITobin yes should not be too shabby but what good is a browser which can not render most major sites?

as for dark themes I personally will happily review but not lift a finger. 20 years 3270 terminals was enough and they at least produced readable screens.

well nothing color scheme wise can get started until all the icans have transparent backgrounds ;)

get transparent icans make sure all the about pages have styling find all colors and make em a selection of css vars.. write code to control those values write xul for a small UI SeaMonkey can be whatever color or offer color schemes for users cross platform no platform modifications required so it stays out the way

and people can't say oh well i can't use it on my dark mode os or the color is ugly or hurts my eyes

nsITobin: at this rate if the look of modern is a problem, I'd personally prefer a separate theme for whatever is hype right now, perhaps "Monochrome" :-D

the look is still fairly modern imo maybe not the icon style but the UX style is CERTAINLY modern enough with additional schemes or user choice on that front it can be suited or matched as they see fit or maybe i never get around to an extension for it and its just by a userChrome.css hack

trust me it isn't near as much work as you guys think it is

the hardest part is me cutting out icons and replicating the light/dark shadow effect which just takes some tweaking

besides i been working on this since 2013ish I'd like to get it done LOL

njsg yeah ! I have passed from SM 2.53.3 32 bits to SM 2.53.19 64 bits ans SM is not the default browser

nsITobin maybe you can style WIP-9999999-delete.patch a bit better. I like thre functionalty so I have not taken it out yet from the prerelease builds but its not ready for a release. Looks urgkkk.

checking

frg_Away: so does this clear all or just the selected magic'd address

selected address

that is so counter intuitive

it's also broken

oh it's unimpl'd right duh

nsITobin works for me

If you move over it the x appears. Straight port from TB

must be clunky widget handling yeah it works just not ALWAYS when you'd expect like you have to have more than one email address and be in another field

the extension this is based conceptually on put the button in the text field at the start.. I think it should go at the end of the text field All close buttons in seamonkey globally are on the right .. modern text box clear buttons are also typically in the field and on the right which is something Thunderbird is adding the modern form of to their text fields .. this autohide bs is taken for outlook parody.. i mean parity

autohide-slide

the feature is a good one tho.