Is it true that Seamonkey is abandoning 32-bit x86 target?

That means that I also have to stop using it

yes. ou can roll your own build. Support will not be taken out

So it still builds normally?

yes

Are there any building instructions online? One friend also needs a non-SSE2 version

but at least I won't test it any longer. If something fails to build I wont try to fix it but have no problem integrating patches.

IanN provided linux buiild instructions on the web page. Non sse2 will not be possible I suspect.

Why wouldn't it be?

Because of Rust?

probably built build config changes needed.

Linux's I/O has definitely became a lot slower than before

I'm installing updates to a virtual machne that runs Devuan Linux and it's been doing that for 20 minutes

And there's not even that many packages to update

stuff like this used to work very fast on a Pentium II, now it is very slow on an i7-based Xeon

Make sure VT-d is on ifor the vm.

it's I/O that is slow

VT-d is for io No vt-d = slow io in a vm.

the I/O is also slow on native hardware nowadays

a lot slower than it was

the mach command does not find python

How do I solve this? Every time when something requires python it means problems

You need pytin 3.7+. 3.12 is probably broken. Downloa the firefox esr115 source and do a mach bootstrap. Then you should probably be set.

^python

64 bit host 8GB minimum

What Linux distribution should I use?

How does compiling and linking need that much?

rust and libxul.

central now needs 32GB thanks to rust.

doesn't that ruin the whole idea of "open source" if compiling the program requires 10 times more memory than using it

no, 100 times more

can'T help it. need to follow mozilla alt least part way. No devs no independent real development.

I don't have that much memory

how large are the modules that are written in rust?

How am I even supposed to make any changes to the program if compiling it requires 32 gigabytes of memory and I only have 22?

Shit like that ruins the whole purpose of free software

2.53 only needs 8. cewntral is comm-central and SeaMonkey is broken there anyway. Just compiles.

SeaMonkey should ditch all rust modules and use only C and C++ code that is written in such way that it is easily portable to different 32-, 64- and maybe even 16-bit target platforms

these are questions I asked in 2015 regarding chromium

Sompi: not possible with the current codebase

16 and 32 bit are dead

32bit has been less relevant outside specialist usage and old hardware for a decade

16-bit is inevitably going to be the future when China attacks Taiwan

but seamonkey isn't 16bit

ha, just updated to 32GB here

costed ~$96

After all it's mostly just about the default int size, and avoiding pointer offsets larger than 65536

but no i am upset about this too because it means I can't do mozilla in a VM

Sompi: I've been using 64-bit OS since 2006

it's a biiiiiit late to go back

...wow, 19 years!

and can barely do it on bare metal where the build host's lifetime is limited and I will never install windows 11 on here

that Core 2 Duo box is old enough to vote, drink alcohol, and maybe even use assault weapons

I use 32-bit operating systems on computers that have less than 5 gigabytes of RAM because all binaries are smaller on 32-bit

even if the computer supports 64-bit

we now have a even bigger problem: compilers

one of the reasons Debian is dropping 32-bit releases (but not binaries!) is that GCC doesn't even know what's a Pentium anymore

How would it not know that?

ask for -march=i586, get... conditional moves (a Pentium Pro feature)

wtf

and Rust compiler is even worse

yes, that's what I said

I see these as non-issues

because it is NOT too late to fork off all this shit

I thought that gcc is consistent about target platforms

tho it is damned close to the wire

ask 32-bit code, get... "something, yes, it will run on a Nehalem or Excavator so who cares"

gcc hasn't been consistant since version 5

Sompi: not anmore

--not anymore

for a long time

that bite me recently when trying to crosscompile a Super Mario 64 executable to run on a ol' Socket 7 box for lulz

if you ask for i686/Pentium III, you're kinda safe... for now

but that's GCC, as I've said, Rust assumes "32 bit? It must have SSE2, amirite?"

Then what's the point of having the i586 target there if it outputs instructions that only exists in i686...

historical scripts

tomman: Yes and the rust maintainers have no intention of fixing it

and configure systems

nsITobin: But if i586 and i686 still aren't the same thing

i mean somehow x86-64 is now versioned

when did this happen

I can understand the rationale: few of those systems are surviving, and developers have long ago moved over

who decided it

nsITobin: Intel

and why was I not consulted

blame Intel

i586 uses only some Pentium Pro instructions, but i686 uses them all?

That makes no sense

now we have LINUX DISTROS dropping original Nehalems!

how does INTEL decide AMD64?

Sompi: i686 _is_ Pentium Pro

explain

tomman: I know

i586 uses no i686 instructions - Pentium MMX is basically i586 with MMX, while Pentium II is i686 with MMX

but these days: "i586? Must be a Core 2 Duo, right?"

So how i586 has some Pentium Pro instructions too and how is that not considered a bug?

because no one should be coding for that

nobody has bothered reporting it, and filing a bug report at GCC (and all the involved protocol) is... not for the faint of heart

coding for that IS a bug

But the current situation really is crazy. I have a relatively powerful Xeon computer and every time when I update software I fear that the new version does not support my CPU anymore

nsITobin: So I'm mostly only coding bugs?

Sompi: to some.. not me

What about clang then?

Outside of retrocomputing, there is really no interest these days

Sompi: Clang is on the same boat, I'm afraid

I mean I am on version 4 of my self.. and it still isn't what the world wants.. and at this point.. the world doesn't KNOW what it wants that's why shit is collapsing

but then LLVM came muuuuch after Coppermine

Sompi: besides what good is a modern compiler that won't even run on the hardware that if the worst happened tech wise we'd be forced to

In the past you could always use the "unofficial" bug reporting protocol for most free software: Just join their IRC channel and complain about the bug, the developers were usually operators in those channels

we'd NEED period compilers or a new one for that hardware

then you just have to bootstrap.. once back

Nowadays you usually need at least Chromium or Firefox and a Microsoft Github account

yep

guess what I don't have

anymore

Sompi: or a Hackernews account and a Xitter account and some loud social media following

a github account i can use

i HAVE another github account but if i do anything not read-only it will be banned cause it is obviously me

Even if the project doesn't use Github, social media is basically a must for many projects these days

listen to ourselves tho

hell, I know projects (mainly in the gaming realm) whose bugtrackers live in... goddamned Discord

we ARE saying you need to be approved by microsoft to be in most open source development

tell me how FUCKED that is

worse, they host code on Github (or Gitlab), but don't use the bugtracker on those at all

tomman: rust also uses discord. not the game, I mean the programming language

Jesus Fried Christus

yeah, that plague has been spreading across vast surfaces on FOSSland

rust is not free software

rust is compiler and ecosystem as a service

codeberg is almost the only viable git platform now days.

i am on gitlab because codeburg is too small and special intrests would get me.. on gitlab i just have to worry about the automated system

Anything centralized by definition is vulnerable to enshittification and similar woes

but sadly selfhosting anything these days is expensive, difficult, and generally considered "a threat"

and even then gitlab isn't NEARLY as socially connected as github

we all kinda live in our own little worlds and actually have to make a choice to go elsewhere

on github you can link around everywhere

yes, we desperately need a anti-enshitification movement

That too, these days the newest crop of devs are very... "social" folks, AKA they need their likes and reposts

OKAY

guys

the program is not free if its developers intentionally make it dependent on closed source software and centralized services and do it so that the user cannot work around it

we all have known each other for years.. are we socially normal?

any of us?

i mean i am an extreme case

but is anyone plain normal?

nothing is normal today anyway : )

but, yeah,I guess it's NOT normal to have a heap of social media trackers in your phone and life today

maybe IanN .. he might be normal or just learned long ago to be less abby-normal

in that case I am very not normal

uh, I meant not normal to not have. I should stop double negations

what's "normal"?

I'm a human, but that's it

to be on every social platform ever. If not you're either a bot or a cave man : )

Probably not a bot btw, since they actually are on every social platform..

things that were considered antisocial behavior are now considered social

And viceversa

indeed. We have come full circle

i dunno why *I* needed to go on that trip but i guess I learned ... something?

nowadays it's normal to refuse socializing with people who don't use your favourite centralized closed source messaging spyware app (that also does not work if the other person does not have exactly the same type of phone that you have)

guess get it over with last decade so i can deal with this now this decade I GUESS

I'm feeling very orsen wells atm

being always past that

We know a little open source project where developers work...

:P

hmmm, Greasemonkey is borked here

you can bitch complain fork or trying to build a time machine but it won't do any good and it is just a waste of time.

trying to add a userscript to bypass Imgur brokennes, and it fails to paste scripts from clipboard

instead I get two JS errors on the error console

Fecha: 10/5/25 10:15:15 a. m. VET

Error: TypeError: window.opener.messageManager is undefined

Archivo fuente: chrome://greasemonkey/content/newscript.js

Línea: 32

Fecha: 10/5/25 10:15:16 a. m. VET

Error: TypeError: aSource is null

Archivo fuente: chrome://greasemonkey-modules/content/extractMeta.js

Línea: 8

frg_Away: but can I do all that and deal with today's issues.. and all i can say is I can try

the first one comes when hitting "New Script"

the second one when pressing the "Use Script from Clipboard" button

I still use an old Pentium for an eprom burner but 64 bit is so much better. memory allocation in 16 bit was a nightmare and 32 bit is too limited for anyting big today.

butbutbut segments are PHUN!

wonder what the hell is window.opener.messageManager

Even keeping SeaMonky alive is a struggle and forking anything like a compiler or os needs dedicated people who are not there. You end up with a half finished one man project. Really no offence but that is the reality.

message manager for some window opener async jazz?

integers that don't fit in 16 bits are very rarely needed

a part of me still feels that isolation of people with opinions has been systatic in some areas .. and primary distraction has been the trivialities we are all on about as if one can't have more than one system or thing.. as they lay the monoculture I my self fell into the trap of the inverse monoculture instead of an anti-monoculture.. i am sure i am not the only one who has made this mistake

I can't even find documentation about messageManager on MDN

tomman: use udn

realityripple's semi-decent clone

linked on xulorg and cci

mostt firefox internal docs were moved off to readthedocs site for firefox source or just vanished

oh, so it's not messageManager that is dead, it's "window.opener" that somehow is null

and of course trying to access a property of a null... is bound to do Icky Things

then why the hell is "window.opener" null?

people with IQ less than 115 tend to see everything in a dualistic way

or to be more specific, people with an IQ less than one standard deviation over the median

I haven't yet figured out how to fix it. They always see only two options and cannot comprehend that there might actually exist more alternatives than those two

No amount of reasoning is enough to fix it

Hmmm, the only clue I find regarding window.opener being null is a bunch of stuff that only seems to apply to websites, not XUL content

OK, saving the script to a "blah.user.js" and opening that from the browser works

still... why the hell window.opener is null on this dialog? And what's causing that paste from clipboard to eventually get null text too?

well, imgur is trying its hardest to become unusable for me

none of the userscripts I've tried manage to redirect me to the actual images

and now their HTML junk wants JS dynamic imports, so all I get is a black screen (that still loads spy scripts from some .ai domain, cute)

the userscripts I've tried so far get caught into endless redirect loops

any attempt to redirect to the actual image URL just get redirected to the HTML site

apparently they now enforce referer checks

use ibb.co

problem is... dealing with 3rd-party links

Thankfully I have a personal web host I pay for (in local currency, even!), but people still use Imgur, like developers are addicted to Github

i don't have an image uploader on linux else i'd go back to using my personal subdomain.. tho I suppose I could get a drop and paste-drop script

then it would be like imgbb which I been using

I'm a dinosaur. I just use FTP :P

apparently there is even FTP for cellphones nowadays!

tech is wonderful

tomman: you saying you can do things on the telephone you could only do on com-PUters?

Sompi: btw i wasn't disagreeing with you earlier if you thought so